It’s better to focus on how to prevent the same attack on the new chain with a more well-funded attacker. If this was caused by an attacker, then the attacker has probably an order of magnitude more funds than prior to the attack due to shorts on LUNA and/or BTC. If this new chain is not resilient and has defenses against another de-pegging event, then the same thing will happen on this new chain. All this talk about distributing the new LUNA 2.0 is pointless because it will spiral to 0 again if nothing changes about the algorithm or no new defenses are put in place.
Isn’t this false? Luna holders have lost 99,999999999% of their portfolio, UST holders have lost, at the time of this writing, about 85%, which will also decrease as the new revival plan will put upward pressure on UST for people to get in cheap for the distribution of the new token. Thus, Luna holders deserve more compensation.
And regarding pre/post-peg holders, you can’t possibly expect Terra to value people who last second bought some luna for cheap as it was going down, in the hope if it mooning again later on, with people who have been holding Luna for over a year, and have been through all its ups and downs.
THIS is how to treat a community. Fair. No matter how much money one invested. Everyone should be treated equally. Just because someone loses 40% of his 100 mil does not mean it’s worse than someone losing 40% of his 100$
think of token as you think of stock in the stock market. you can not prefer investor A over investor B just because he was holding the stock longer (or even bought years ago for cents or got for free as an airdrop). no court will allow it. also, think about someone whose checkbook has been stolen, and the scammer used those checks to buy goods and services. the law in many countries already found that the provider of those goods and services should not be a second victim just because he sold his goods and services and received stolen checks. same thing here. if you can find a fair way to reverse minting and burn stolen tokens it’s fine, but you can not punish the public that uses his best fund to buy Luna. there was no sticker on which Luna token was kosher and which one was minting stolen. the only way to do stuff are those that do not involve discrimination, there is no room and frankly, there is no even a safe legal path to prefer any investor over others or staking holder over CEX holders. The public can’t keep paying the bills, just because a small group of people makes mistakes!!!
LUNA and UST are not equal, their rates of risk and reward of each one are distinct:
UST has no rewards because it trades it for more secure peg. LUNA, just the opposite, rewards in exchange of greater volatility risks.
Most of the value was attracted mostly for the stablecoin usecase. Most of the value of the project is still made up by the savings and users of the stablecoin.
It is not a coincidence that depositants are considered before shareholders at bank defaults. It is fairest, but also the best, if not the only, way to maximize the value.
Everybody may be equal, but in capability of voting the final proposal that saves Terra. Which, regarding the numbers, it would likely mean UST depositants would ultimately decide as being the largest mass of users. Maybe this is the ultimate reason why democracy is what survives: Because they are the one that wisely choose to prioritize the peg first and, thus, it is able to restore their systems when this happens.
Take a look at https://classic-agora.terra.money/t/terra-v2-upgrade/
Actually coming to think of it in a logical way. 1 token is 1 token, what compensation are we talking about, the fork should just give back what one have at 1 token LUNA to 1 token New LUNA.
Price is determined by the market force, at current price, you cannot simply centralised control the price, jack it up put a price tag, and call it decentralised.
Then same people bought 1 token at $0.00001 is taking same risk as those bought 1 token at $100 don’t you guys get it???
DoKwon, again your proposal suck big time!
are u stupid?
some group before UST depeg that hold a big piece of luna and ust has made this depeg. and now u want to encourage them? those people earned billions on crash and ur proposal is to give them a benefit? rly braindead
The point is that it is impossible to distinguish between pre and post attack buyers.
If you woke up to find the price at $40 and sold then decided to buy back at $10 which group are you in?
And it starts again… Someone is more equal, or want to decide who can be equal with him… It can’t be done this way! Equal without a “but” or not equal at all…
an algorithmic stable coin by its nature can’t keep the peg 100% and those that buy the deep actually in many times keep the faith in the system and help it to bouns back. so are you saying that whoever bought Luna when the UST was 0.9999 should not be counted? or maybe 0.9998 ? or 0.89999 where is the line cross? and who going to play God to decide?
We are willing to forgive some but not reset back and not arbitrary sizes proposed purely by LUNA holders. For arbitrary you can recover it from TFL for a broken system.
Everyone knew what the algorithm does, but the repeg didn’t work right even after dilution. There could be a lag between market forces reacting to the dilution and since the price oracle checks once a minute it could not have reacted very quickly to these changes. Let’s not speculate. The TFL team has the responsibility and action item to perform the analysis and provide everyone the results. Otherwise if nothing looks good then UST holders will want to dilute the rest of the LUNA to recover any remaining value as per the algorithm as a contract.
We can work out different terms however, for example put everyone on the UST side into higher interest bearing securities so that in time UST can be recovered. As long as everything pegs to a reserve it may work to avoid further dilutions. What has already been diluted should not be undone without UST holder accepting that.
I guess once Luna cap + UST cap < $1 * UST supply, the system is broken into a death spiral. Mathematically impossible to automatic recover/repeg, if you want to save UST then need external capital, or you need to give up UST(disable burn/mint like now) to save Luna(Luna value is going up since then).
Please support my propsal.
Yes, don’t discriminate or punish the new investors. Any conversions from V1 to V2, should simply be based on how many coins you are holding on the particular day of conversion. Not on the price where you entered or averaged.
I agree. I think we should read carefully the Terra Whitepaper. I think there’s a key point about risk-free profit:
“An arbitrageur can extract risk-free profit when 1 TerraSDR = 0.9 SDR by trading TerraSDR for 1 SDR’s worth of Luna from the system, as opposed to 0.9 SDR’s worth of assets she could get from the open market. Similarly, she can also extract risk-free profit when 1 TerraSDR = 1.1 SDR by trading in 1 SDR worth of Luna to the system to get 1.1 SDR worth of TerraSDR, once again beating the price of the open market.”
What do you think about “risk-free profit”?Thanks in advance for your contributions.
Hope we find an equitable solution.
I bought all my LUNA on:
May 9 (167.86 LUNA) @ 60.00CAD, + a further (58.65) LUNA at 44.33CAD.
May 10 I bought (49.84) LUNA at 24.97CAD
May 11 (777) LUNA at 1.35CAD + (800.29) LUNA at .56CAD
May 12 (188560) LUNA at 0.01194CAD which I think is the last purchase before de-list.
How am I to be compensated for V2?
Dear All members,
Principles of this plan is on Justice & unbiased approach to solving the problem.
Keeping emotions aside, Please stop thinking about your own loss for a minute, just stop. you’re not the only one - let’s think about justice & a way for all & not just ourselves. There are countless investors who were butchered by this event mercilessly. Many have commited sucides, Many might in the future. May god save all of us. so please stop giving bullshit proposals which only serves the side you are on.
Like many, I have lost 100% of my life’s savings ($60K dollars), nor I have a job to go back to. I am literally on the brink of bankruptcy & going to Jail (I owe a big amount to my brother-in-law as well which was wiped out by this event). So if he sues me, I am going to Jail. I have failed my family & 3 kids.
People who have fled with their Terra investment in slight losses (be it Luna, Tust, etc) - congratulations to them on making the wise decision. Many, including me were overconfident. People who are stuck with any form of Terra coins/token in their portfolio - are the ones we have to think about in terms or revival.
It is such a stupid - stupid argument when anyone in terra community tries to pick sides by distinguishing LOYAL set of users/investors OR Before the attack or after…etc. Well, what do investors have to do in order to show their commitment to Terra other than putting their hard earned money… Open our heart with knives & show it to you, for you to believe??? or your logic is… their hard earned savings doesn’t matter to you coz they invested 1 week ago & not 4 years- so it’s not essentially your faul but theirs as they trusted Terra??? You cannot quantify emotions/logic/Loyalty here, we all were fooled. I am sorry you just can’t or should even try to. What matters here is, money was rekt & most importantly people’s lives are now devastated & needs help and healing.
The proposal below aims at minimizing damage in a just way for all & not just me or you. Do not focus on the value of coins or tokens before depeg/after or distinguish small investors vs big investors, UST holders or LUNA, etc. wouldn’t you agree - They are all biases based on which side you’re on? Remember, if you bought LUNA at any price level $119 or even at $0.5 - 99.9% loss will give you the same results & losses. Same with Tust.
The right & fair question to ask here is: How much capital did users invest that they have held till the very end? how much do we have in LFG reserves & How much of it can we compensate with our new plans & systems in place?
Let’s use on chain analysis (minus individuals who are out of the system & are not at further risk) - we can simply check user’s capital investments & decide at level of reimbursement which can be made. if it’s 30%, 40, 50% - whatever that % is - will help everyone equally. All soldiers who faced the attack with bravery…held their investments till the very last minute, meeting the death of the investments - should get fair & equal treatment.
Again before replying, be honorable & don’t think just about yourself & the side you’re on.