Proposals for altering the maximum voting power (4736/4737)

Governance & Proposals
65

@pj20 @godoal As i said, it is not really explained well, but once it will pass it will be implemented. no with veto has it´s own treshold and it is not counted to majority, because only 33,4 % has to be met to make proposal fail without deposit returned. This systems of governance just works like this. Rules are just bad explained, but system is somehow set to work. System is set to decide by this rules. PASS = more YES THEN NO and at least 40 % of total stacked LUNC voted and NOWITHVETO is less then 33,4 %. FAIL = VETO is 33,4 % or more or more votes are for NO. Abstain is only counted to Quorum.

66

If I recall correctly, the proposal was submitted by a validator, so I presume he knows the governance rules.
Aside from that, I understand what you say about the wording of the proposal, but it is the responsibility of the community members to know how governance works by reading the documentation. Since voting is done through the platform, voting results are calculated automatically by predefined modules.

@tolben It is convenient to follow some specific rules every time that are official and publicly available. That is the role of the official documentation. We can’t change the rules or misinterpret them ad hoc. It is unprofessional and frustrating for all of us.

1 Like
67

I agree.

The only way this is going through is if by some miracle YES reaches >=50%

68

@pj20 @godoal The code is also public. Documentation is not an only key.

69

Thanks for sharing the actual code which does it @tolben. I am not very good with GoLang but below seems to me that it considers all no votes and only ignore the abstains:

// If more than 1/2 of non-abstaining voters vote Yes, proposal passes
	if results[types.OptionYes].Quo(totalVotingPower.Sub(results[types.OptionAbstain])).GT(tallyParams.Threshold) {
		return true, false, tallyResults
	}

Is it possible we have a UI bug showing the pass threshold indicator incorrectly.

70

@tolben with all due respect, you do understand that it is not a prerequisite for a community member for voting for a proposal to know coding or how to use github. That is why documentation is provided, which if it is well written with simple wording is beneficial for everyone.
Aside from that, any changes to code must be reflected in the documentation.

71

The code is clear and both v0.44 (T1)/v0.45(T2) match the documentation.
This proposal will fail if yes does not reach >1/2. We’ll see the outcome very soon anyway :slight_smile:

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72

@discovery To be honest, after reading it more times i am pretty unsure too. Yes, maybe it is just bug showing threshold incorrectly. Well, now it is faster to check result after about 30 minutes.

@godoal It is only comment, the thing is tallyParams.Threshold now it is faster to wait.

1 Like
73

How do we see what we voted and how much and if we have voted on a proposal ??

Data for such is not visible - slack oversight IMO and leaves me wondering if this is open to being abused or manipulated.

74

For your votes you can go to History in Terra Station app and find the transactions.

1 Like
75

@pj20 Thanks – appears I voted twice successfully on the 13th Sept and 15th Sept for proposal 4736.
Dont see the voting amount applied each time.
No way of seeing confirmation if my votes have counted or if they have (hopefully not) doubled up.

Not seeing any rejection messages in the history or a message that x amount (example 70M+) voted first time and y amount (example 71M minus 70M from previous vote = 1M+) additional vote added to the count.

Gas (used/requested) still getting my head around this.

76

OR DOES voting again a form of reaffirmation of the first YES vote and balances up tally of staked amount and apply it to the count.

77

If you find your vote in History you can see the transactions fees. You can further go to Terra Finder by clicking the link of the transaction from History to see the complete logs.

78

For what I have read in the terra docs. I will add the No w/ Veto is if you want to burn their deposit. It does count towards the overall No. For a PR to pass it must reach 50% of the vote. So [total staked]/2 has to be Yes. The threshold pass graphic looks like a bug. Part of the governance bugs/improvements another user was talking about.

81

yes did that and the transaction fee is the same both times and only thing i see different is the Gas (used/requested) has slightly changed.

                    Gas (used    / requested)

1st Vote on 13th = 56,441 / 93,834
2nd Vote on 15th = 56,330 / 93,834

Dont see in the logs any display that states how many of my staked LUNC was counted in the vote the 1st time or 2nd time.

85

The graphic and the text percentages at the bottom of the proposal section in Terra Station are a little less than descriptive (at least they were for me before I found this portion of the documentation - thanks to someone who pointed it out to me after a particularly confusing vote).

Here is the documentation on tallying:

Basically, it is (simplified formulas):

  • Needs to pass Quorum greater than or equal to 40% of all staked LUNA v1 (per parameter) which simplified is that:

    • (Yes votes + Abstain votes + No votes + No_With_Veto votes) / Stake total >= 0.4 (ie. 40%)

  • Needs No With Veto percentage to be less than 33.4% (per parameter) which simplified is that:

    • No_With_Veto% < 33.4%

  • Needs to be passing at greater than 50% (per parameter) which simplified is that (only works as long as the passing threshold parameter is set to be greater than or equal to 50%):

    • Yes% > No% + No_With_Veto%

So, if there is a vote where everyone abstains with the exception of 1 vote, that the percentage of all votes is >= 40% of total staked, and that the 1 vote that was not abstain is a Yes, the proposal will pass.

Also (from same tallying document):

Deposits will not be refunded for proposals that are rejected with veto, do not meet quorum, or fail to reach the minimum deposit during the deposit period. Non-refunded deposits are burned.

Just throwing that in there for what it is worth (if not helpful, just disregard).

1 Like
86

I previously read those docs, and read them again. I’m not in agreement with the above. Clearly says has to have ratio of “Yes” greater than the threshold of 50% to pass.

[Formula #3] The ratio of Yes votes must be greater than threshold = 50%

Only quorum factors with abstain calcs. [Formula #1]

I’ll stand by my previous comment that I think there may be a bug with the pass-bar representation on station, and it needed a 50% “Yes” to pass; ~ 569B/2 = ~285B “Yes” votes.

87

Note: After a proposal closes, you can query the vote total (but it will not give you the wallets - so does not help with your particular question, but thought it might be of interest)

2 Likes
89

ek826 tested a very similar situation in testnet (although I no longer have that screen shot of the test).

Here is the vote that got me to start questioning it, and in which I was pointed to the tallying documentation (although it is on Terra v2, this portion of the code works the same as in Terra v1 - although their parameter for quorum is 10% instead of 40%):

You will notice that formula 3 does not take into account abstains, as you also pointed out, so if you follow the actual formula, and plug the numbers in you will see it. For instance for the proposal in the example above:

  • Total_Yes_Votes / (Total_Yes_Votes + Total_No_Votes + Total_No_With_Veto_Votes) = Threshold (Where Threshold has to be > 50%):
    • 144623542534893 / (144623542534893 + 14812047814 + 407765790973) = 0.9971 (or 99.71% threshold - even though Yes votes are only ~38% - and since 99.71% is greater than 50% it is a pass)

It throws you off until you think about it from a parliamentary perspective (or at least it threw me off until someone pointed it out).

90

Well, i checked today and it is rejected. That means UI passtreshold should be bug, but server tallying system works fine. could someone fix it? It was really confusing.