USTC Incremental Repeg, Buybacks, Staking, Swaps

I guess I see it in 2 different phases.
The first phase, it’s a speculative asset. Maybe it works maybe it doesn’t. It has a large upside but the price of admission is playing by the rules which as you’ve said may be not attractive to traders. This phase there may be large taxes due to depeg events. But does a potentially huge upside balance the risk of eating a sales tax? Up to the trader.

Once we’ve been through the arduous journey to a peg we reach the second phase, as a stable coin. Maybe we’ve tweaked some values from things we’ve learned along the way, hopefully our backing assets are sorted out and things look rosy. At this point we need to transform from speculative to stable. We should always be basically a dollar. (I think). Basically swap in for a dollar and swap out for a dollar. 99.9% of the time. If we start to depeg you can either loose it all in capital value during death spiral 2 or take a hit in taxes helping fight back :slight_smile:

TL;DR;
Stairstepping to peg is a gamble with a price to play.
Once we reach peg taxes should be minimal to non existent in non exceptional circumstances.

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You are in crypto. No asset, stable or otherwise is “safe”.
And banks and fixed deposits are also not “safe” if you look at the recent collapses in forex and banking.

Absolutely - not many will take the risk. Same way that ~95% of population hasn’t taken any risk towards crypto.

If you want safe - you buy gold.

And if the USTC has a depeg event (like we saw with USDC and USDT recently) - you have two options. Wether the storm or bail out. There’s always risks. None of this is guaranteed and no crypto or fiat asset gives guarantees.

Look at trending tokens. Look at their taxes and fees. Elon and his dog love is a very specific clue where to start digging to learn about the world of crypto currencies and how they aren’t free of fees/taxes and gas fees. (Tho, I do misappropriate tax=fee)
Heck, even BTC has fees on trades.
Lykke wallet claims to be almost feeless, but that’s a point of contention.

Point being that your misnotion of crypto being free is unfounded entirely. Ever heard of Ethereum? You know how their gas fees are, right…

Like I said many times - you have a richest man by gross net worth schilling the whole dog kennel and you cba to look into the specific tokens. That’s on you. Also NFA.

You seem to be misunderstanding the proposal. Tax is incremental as well as the peg is going up in increments.

Furrher away from peg you are - more you get taxed. It doesn’t start at 66.6%, but it does stop at 100% if you are selling 50% away from the peg on a DEX/CEX

Tobin tax applied in the same manner and old Terra was supposed to apply a 100% tax on 60% away from peg. It didnt work. Code was bungled. Oops.

That makes no sense. USTC crashed below a cent. How did folks “take their money back when they wanted to”. Theres some 40 billion dollars lost
How does one acquire it back freely?

If a dollar dips in value, you lose purchasing power. Fed uses tax hikes to stabilize it. Not a new concept.

We use divergence tax to stabilize it.
I get it - you want control, but you can’t find controm and guarantees in any monetary system to date.

Free market notion is much a dream that true decentralization. No matter how much you pound your chest and claim that it’s your token and you should be able to do what you want with it.

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I agree with blocking USTC within a protocol and releasing them over time. This can help peg and also reduce the pressure of massive sell-offs.

I am still in favor of the freedom of users, their money and their privacy, but what is necessary must be done to restore the blockchain

So You just avoid answering the question despite you saying so many tokens listed on CEX with 10% on buy and 15-20% on selling supported by Binance off-chain?
DOGE may have a high tax on chain, but is this high tax supported by CEX?
Don’t mix things up, we are talking about tokens that with this high tax supported by CEX, such that CEX is implementing the tax off-chain. Binance DID NOT implement whatever buy/sell tax for DOGE off-chain in for their order book, the fees in their order book is the same with any other tokens they listed, these are the “service fee” they charged traders for using their platform, but not any form of on-chain tax supported.
Which this protocol relies on CEX to implement the 10% on buy and 15-20% on selling tax that cuts into investors.
Let me ask you again, List ONE token that Binance implemented the 10% on buy and 15-20% on selling tax on their books off-chain, not on chain fees / tax, then we talk.

Fees are used to incentivize miners to include your transaction in the block. Theoretically, you can send BTC without fees if miners included the transaction in the block. The reason your transaction will not be included that there are many transactions by others that willing to pay a higher fee to compete, incentivizing miners to include their transactions in the block with higher priority. Anyway, BTC is POW while LUNC is POS, what’s the point to bring up BTC?

Gas fees are used for the work done, that’s fair. When more people are competing to use the service, the gas fees rises, Supply remain constant, demand increases, price rises, just simple demand and supply. If people is not willing to pay that high of a gas fees, they will not execute the transaction and demand will drop.
We are not here to just “copycat” other blockchains, but to improve and provide “value” to users / investors.

Tax is incremental by what? By building up collateral. How? By cutting traders that trading below peg. Will you trade below peg? No. If there’s no one selling below peg, how do you accumulate the asset for collateral? This further reduces the buyers for USTC.

They have the option to sell their USTC during the depeg, which at the time of 0.8$USTC gives them 0.8$, not as the Divergence Protocol, giving sellers only 0.6$USTC if they sold at 0.8$ and takes 0.2$USTC ( 25% ) as tax. The price for USTC will be at equilibrium if buyers ( demand ) and sellers ( supply ) balance out, by the value they think USTC are. How is this the same? With extra fees taken from them?

It’s true that you lose purchasing power when dollar dips in value. Fed tries to stabilize it by rate hikes, by making the dollar more attractive relative to other currencies, but what ultimately is dollar backed by after gold standard is dropped? NOTHING, basically paper money, it is backed by TRUST from people alone. Why inflation talk is 2%? The government want you to spend your money, otherwise everyone will just save up their money and not taking risk, the development and growth in society will slowdown significantly. This is also why they don’t set inflation target to Zero. USD has the position and political power that it needs to enable them to export inflation to others and keep USD’s value.
Back to USTC, do USTC has the same fundamentals? No, it is not widely used for settlement in the globe like USD did, it is competing with many other decentralized currency out there and now this proposal is setting the floor price at the expense of sellers, using sellers money to paid off the difference from the artificial proped incremental peg. The definition of PONZ, using new comer’s money to pay off old investors.
The proposal is forcing sellers to follow the floor price by the peg, or get cut simply say. This will make USTC even more illiquid.
If USTC wants to be the decentralized money, sufficient collateral is a must to backup the currency to rebuild market confident, but there got to be a better way to do it without cutting deep into sellers / potential new investors pocket.

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hello true experts in blockchain and defi economics, I notice you @Tonu_Magi and @arunadaybasu are always there commenting on the proposals posted on this forum, if you guys really have the skills why don’t you guys make your own props? do you guys function just commenting on other people’s ideas and just talk a lot without any action. if you ask me, i don’t have that skill. but if you guys have the expertise and solutions for the development of this chain, I suggest to make your own proposal and props. instead of spending your time always commenting and criticizing other people’s suggestions. this block chain will only be meme coins and drama. this forum is just a place to divide society without any real action to develop the block chain. to hell with you all. hopefully this decentralized coin dies soon. nothing is really decentralized other than bitcoin. :fu::clown_face:

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Who’s proposal do you think Rabbi is shitting on right now? :sunglasses:

If you haven’t noticed yet, these are all my props.

Also, please do not disrespect people even if they haven’t submitted a proposal. It does not prevent them from participating in Decentralised Governance.

I answered politely that I will not name the coins directly as it is a form of schilling.
But to make it blunt and clear - dog meme chains are multiples.
All Ethereum based tokens have gas fees
all BSC chains have gas fees and taxes.
Every CEX listed takes their own cut, plus the chains cut
My claim was that MEXC, Huobi, Binance, Gate.Io list these chains (their respective tokens) that do have high tax (i will ammend that i use the term tax=fee although they are not exactly the same).

If you truly cared about which chain in particular or the examples - just direct message.
Or you know - pull a token, see what their fees are, check volumes.

Just as an example, if you are unable to properly use the Internet:
To acquire 610m USD worth of BTC from Binance - I paid 12 USD on tax and fees, plus another tenner to send it to a wallet. So roughly 3%. Which isn’t high, but that is BTC - supposedly the free market pinnacle

And Binance has trading fees for ALL tokens. That is what Binance gets. The chain can and for most part does impose their own gas fee/buy and/or sell fee and whatever tax they could have.

:slight_smile: True free market.

Incrementally going up first. You peg it to a cent. Collect collateral. Then 2 cents…Until you have enough collateral to maintain a stable one dollar.

Yes, you finally understood it - you collect taxes for those who sell below peg.
If no one is selling below peg, you still get the gas fees from buy and sell.
You have trading pairs just like on Forex markets.
The point of it being stable is that it drives demand if you have utility for it.
And the price can go above a dollar, another trade.
How do you not understand these basics?

I am not sure how are you not getting it yet, but Terra crashed due to run on Anchor.
Depegged. Now. It would have still survived, but then folks like you started panicking. Their dollar was valued below a dollar and that created sell pressure and more and more.
Due to the broken implementation of code - the 100% tobin tax (not your 2% at peg) never kicked in.

If you want the freedom of selling at a loss - choose another token then.

You are in a free market, like you want to be. No one forcing your hand.
Im sure there’s other chains where your monetary losses are highly valued by other investors and gobbled up for their profits.

This proposal does seek to profit the chain and the users on it, but not those looking to cash out on expense of others. Good luck, private Citizen. May the trades at below peg be fruitful and plentiful

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:100:

One word.

AMAZING !!!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

This is not schilling, I politely ask you which coin in specific are you talking about for CEX to support their on-chain 10% on buy and 15-20% on selling off-chain in Binance as an example cause I cannot found ONE and you stated there are many, we need a ground to start talking.
If you count those listed tokens with high on chain tax without being supported off-chain tax on Binance, there are many. If we are talking about tokens that on chain tax gets implemented on CEX’s off-chain transactions, we can agreed that we DO NOT have an example for CEXs to support this high tax off-chain, right? ( which this protocol needs the support of CEX to implement the protocol’s high tax off-chain for this to work )

Tax and Fees are both expense from trader’s perspective, but they are not the same. You can trade BTC directly on the blockchain from wallet to wallet Over-The-Counter if you can come to a deal with others, then the only fees you paid would be for the transaction to be processed on chain.
We all know transaction fees on BTC is not cheap, but the larger the fund you try to transfer, the transaction fee would be much less overall ( relatively ) with the money you send.

What CEX’s fees charging is YOU used their platform, Binance as an intermediate and seller do the same, Binance matched the trade from buyer and seller and the trade executes, Binance take the 0.1% on spot as their service fee for you using their platform ( or % fees stated by the CEX ). They also handle the settlement and custody for you. This is fair and competitive pricing on fees ( 0.1%, not a large chunk of the transaction ) as buyers and sellers did use Binance’s service. While the protocol suggest to take high % from seller for " defending the peg", this will also create liquidity issue as no seller would sell lower and buyer won’t pay more than the peg, trades will not be matched and executed, funds will not be accumulated ( no volume under the peg ) at a rate as expected / proposed by current trading volume.

Sorry but I didn’t catch your example, how’s the maths work? 610m USD worth of BTC with 0.1% fees from Binance = 610K USD, how do you get 12 USD? And there is no tax in buying / selling unless the location of where you are at, the Local Government charged you those taxes.
And let me reiterate, the transaction fees you paid on BTC to get the transaction to be processed is earned by miners. You are competing with other people who posted transactions to get miners to include the transaction on the block, transaction fees set by supply ( miners ) & demand ( transactions to be processed ) on POW chain like BTC, free market without intervene. No sole person dictates the transaction fees.

I get the idea of the proposal from the start, but limiting people to freely trade will reduce the volume and liquidity.
And you do not get the gas fees when no one selling below peg. These transactions on CEXs are off chain, not on chain, only on chain transactions will post gas fees for collect.
You know CEXs transactions are off chains? Stop mixing up on & off chains.

One of the reason people panic because the price falls, other part is that there’s no collateral ( real value ) to support the token, people bought the hype without fully understanding what they are buying. By forcing them to hold and locking them in USTC won’t make the situation better. The root is people have to be able see the token they hold has value ( collateral ) and fud will be cleared. This is more about market confidence and attacker on USTC’s depeg takes advantage of people panic to ensure their attack work.

And the protocol is lowering LUNC’s chain’s competitiveness with other chains? For new investors?

So you can only enter USTC but not exit? It’s like saying to new comers, " You are free to enter USTC, but at your own risk as we do not guarantee you can exit" :rofl:
You are not going to hold USTC till death and everyone will one day be the seller for USTC. Who’s the exit liquidity? New comers?

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That is

This claim has not been made. Go back. Read my original mention of token that have buy and sell tax (or fee, as they call it). The one example I provided is the trending dog tokens. There are only a handful of those. One puppy one having 10/10 fee on buy and sell.
You also have the option of contacting me privately if you can’t find any.

On-chain transactions such as wallet to wallet are not taxed with the example fees - to my knowledge. There certainly are gas fees.

Off-chain, DEX/CEX transactions on applicable tokens are taxed as it’s part of the tokenomics.
Hell, most are on BSC or ETH chain, so it’s standard practice and just like true memes - they do it to reduce supply.

Not all of them, Elons dog named coin has 2/2 fee
Plus gas fees. Plus off-chain fees. Plus whatever else the chain may or may not charge.

Not all are about dogs of course. Bep-20 tokens all feed on tax and fees :wink: Google your chosen token+WP.
I’ll not repeat myself the 4th time.

Exactly as I said to your original remark of free markets. Glad you finally are starting to understand it.
A CEX is an entity, so are you, so is the chain.
Irrelevant why CEX applies additional burdens to your free market sale, same as with the chain burdens you with taxes and fees.

You now start to sing the same tune.

It’s okay that you didn’t understand the math, since you didn’t read what I said.
I told you that taxes and fees cost me 12 bucks on it, plus gas fee on sending it to a wallet.

Since you were bent on claiming free markets (notion that nothing should burden your sale, god forbid on Binance).

It’s cute that you now claim it being okay, since miners get the pay.

Yet, if it comes to TC - Community Pool, Oracle Pool (for validators, stakers) should be paid from…What?

The divergence tax isn’t burned off.

Subjective belief. There’s no other chain like Terra Classic, so neither of us has any data to support the claims we make.

This absurdity doesn’t even make any kind of sense.
Do you…do you still not understand why a stable is used or bought?

Imagine the most simplistic scenario: One day Cz descends from Binance HQ (his house) and blesses LUNC. LUNC goes parabolic. You sell the top, lest your profits dwindle.
Now, but you need to store the value in crypto - you use USTC. Its a stable.
Or you trade on DEX - again. A stable needed.

It’s painful if you aren’t quite aware why stable tokens are needed in the first place and try to force them to be speculative tokens.

Most stables use monetary backing. Gold, basket of assets or straight up dollars in the bank.
We don’t have those assets so we use divergence tax to make it so.

Even if you have dollar to dollar backing in the bank - it doesnt guarantee 100% of the time.
No guarantees in crypto.

The tax we use (that is OK for miners and CExs to profit, like you said) is to generate the assets and more assets we have - less likely any depeg.
Plus we have ~20 stables in total.

Now, If something is still unclear to you - feel free to contact me directly. I’m sure I can hand you a few manuals.

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Right. Im sold today. Danger situation.

Can we set divergence tax at some maximum percentage like 5%. if heavy depeg happen like 0.60 cents algo will tax 5 cent for fist 48 hour. after it try to stablise at suppose 0.70cents tax will be count from 0.70 cents not from stable 1 dollar. every 24 or 48 hour stablise value should be define tax should be from that value only. which is most viable seller will not resisted to pay max 5% tax and buyer also happy.

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That’s good that you know this is the 4th time. Quoted your original post for your convenience to see what you have claimed.

( 10% on buy and 15-20% on selling isn’t new and has not stopped listings in top 10 exchanges ) This claim has not been made.

The question is which token get listed in top 10 exchanges gets their 10% on buy and 15-20% on selling tax for off-chain transaction? You say there are many but you did not name ONE as example despite this is the 4th time politely asking you about it.

Is this listed on top 10 exchanges? Their 10/10 on chain taxes supported by off chain transactions ( trades that happened on the CEXs ( i.e. Binance ))? Let’s keep this public, nothing fishy that cannot be talked in the public.

The Bep-20 tokens you talked about even if they are on any top 10 exchanges, the on chain tax for these tokens are not supported for off-chain executed trades by CEXs.
CEXs did not implement the on chain taxes for those tokens on their off chain transactions, the tax is simply not applicable as their executed trades are off chain.
The fact that you claim “to avoid schilling” as your reason to not give ONE example of token that their on chain tax gets supported by top exchanges Binance off chain just shows there’s NONE. You cannot Goggle your way out for something that does not exist.

Its more like you didn’t present it clearly? Anyone that knows math knows 610m USD worth of BTC for 0.1% fees from Binance = 610,000,000 USD x 0.001 = 610K USD, and you say taxes and fees cost you 12 USD? The fees from Binance alone exceeds what you claimed, I wonder what kind of Maths you learn in the world that you are in.

Community Pool, Oracle Pool (for validators, stakers) are paid from gas fees and swap fees before crash, these fees are much more reasonable for what validators have done to earn them than Divergence protocol.

That’s why earlier I am asking you what’s the point of bringing a POW chain VS POS chain, obviously you skimmed and didn’t read. There you go.

As you like Google, I suggest you to google what free market is before talking, you are the one who bents the meaning. Stop bundling things together and bend the meanings.
Binance is just one of the exchanges that most people choose to use as the intermediate, it has minimal link to free market.
If Binance sets the fees to non-sense, people will switch to another exchange. Same as what Divergence protocol is doing.

BTW, I have Goggled for you.
[Investopedia] A free market is one where voluntary exchange and the laws of supply and demand provide the sole basis for the economic system, without government intervention . A key feature of free markets is the absence of coerced (forced) transactions or conditions on transactions.

It’s pure pain that you keep adding additional things and mixing things up to bend the basic concepts to your own advantage to justify additional fees to market participants to say it is normal.

NOPE. I always understand, you are the one that misunderstand a lot of basic concept for trading and constantly mixing up fees & taxes. The thing is, even if Binance and all the exchanges went out of business tomorrow, people can still trade on chain if they make a deal in real life. Intermediates ( Exchanges ) is not a MUST for a free market nor for trades to execute ( buyers and sellers are ), intermediates is an entity that facilitates market efficiency and take % of transaction as their service fees for their workdone.

People trades in exchanges do not need to trust their counterparty, instead they trust the intermediate ( Exchanges ), and the fee is a reasonable service fee you agreed to pay to the exchange. By using an exchange, traders eliminated risk of trading with people they do not know. The fee is not an additional burden to the free market sale, but a risk transferred off your trading, that handed to the exchange. If people are to trade with someone they do not know themselves, there are all kind of risks included and absorbed by the trader himself if he decide to deal with the counterparty.

Again, you really need to stop putting things that are so different to compare together.
You really put service fees by CEX ( 0.1% ) charged after service CEX provided to you with on chain tax ( 0.2%, still fairly reasonable, people uses the blockchain to transfer their assets ) & fees this protocol suggest ( Up to 100%, is this reasonable? What has this protocol done that deserved to tax investor for up to 100% )?

It’s also awful to talk with you about trading, as you surely show that you don’t understand it.
You think you put out a buy / sell order, the order gets magically executed? There’s a buyer / seller ( counterparty ) on the other side that has to be willing to pay / receive that price to buy / sell for the order to execute. A trade would not execute without either side.

A stable is NOT A MUST for a pair to be traded on DEX, any tokens can be the base against other tokens. People prefer stables to be base because this takes out one variable and this is much more easier to manage. If we have a stable, that’s good, if we don’t, we still live to tell another day, just more conversions to be done.

The community as a whole forced USTC into speculative, including you and me and everyone who talks about repeg USTC. This gives the narrative for investors to go talk about potential to $1 USD.
Don’t talk like you are not in it, it is a side product of what direction and action the community is pushing USTC towards, not what we actively done forcing USTC to be speculative.

Stables that used to store value, not only has to have value themselves, it also needs to be accessible whenever the owner needs it to be considered to store “value”. Divergence tax strictly limits the seller’s freedom to price their own asset, does not solve the liquidity issue ( actually worsen ) on chain.
It is OK to not guarantee people to get what they put in as this is an investment, but it is not OK to Not guarantee people the ability and liquidity, locking people up in USTC.
Plus, USTC is not the only one that can store value, USTC is competing with others in the market without all these limits on withdrawals and liquidity issues.

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loooool to those replies…did you receive a luna 2.0 airdrop ?

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Taxis applicable on selling or swaping only. Not for transfer. Like you buy and pay ustc as payment right??

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Hahahhaha :rofl::joy: that was a good one I must say.

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Sorry guys I’ve been a bit mental in work the last few days so just catching up. I’ll try to get through everyone’s comments before the evening is out.

I have noticed one trend with a few individuals saying that you can’t restrict selling with a divergence tax, investors wouldn’t buy into it etc. Anyone who thinks this is very much mistaken. If you take a look at how Terra worked before, we actually had a dynamic 0-100% tax called the Tobin Tax that was based on the spread/difference/divergence in prices. So at its peak, investors were buying into Terra knowing they could be taxed up to 100% if the spread got big enough. The reason it failed as a capital control measure is it wasn’t applied to the majority of supply as it sat on CEXs. But saying that it’s bad for investors and that they wont buy into it because of these measures is simply not true.

Crypto is about having our money free from government regulation and control, this is true and I fully agree with this. At the same time that doesn’t meant we shouldn’t have any capital control measures whatsoever. We as a community have to be proactive and self regulate, we need to make sure our money isn’t controlled and manipulated by the likes of SBF, who can move billions of dollars of assets in seconds and create death spiral scenarios. Terra was never about the big institutions, it was always about the people. If you read the Terra Documentation you will see that this ecosystem was designed to punish institutions moving large volumes that would impact markets. Moving forward do we want to leave ourselves open to this sort of market manipulation again? I think the answer is no!

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@bikyeo Please stop flagging everything you don’t agree with. It’s a waste of our time reviewing.

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Who will implement this proposal if the L1 team does not cooperate with the coding for some reason?
Is there a second plan?

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