Agreed!!! I lost so much!
Surely you see why this could be problematic. For example, someone who sold UST at $0.50 could falsify a transaction log that shows they sold at $0.10, and would get an extra 40% on their refund. I think it’s imperative that for the first batch of refunds we stick to verifiable, unexploitable blockchain data.
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This cap you proposed is way too low. In your definition anyone who deposited over $50K is a whale which is not even close to being true when the UST deposit amount was 8 billion at the time of the 2nd depeg. Like what @fatman said the top 1000 wallets comprised of 82.5% of the UST deposits on Anchor and the lowest of the top 1000 wallets had around 1 million in UST. I would argue that even up to 400K UST staked is still not considered a whale and should be made whole if possible.
Also you are assuming that both initiatives can’t coexist and assuming the LFG funds have to go to one proposal or the other. They could have say 3 billion in assets between LFG and TFL funds left and can allocate 1.5 billion to this UST redemption proposal and 1.5 billion to the Luna Go Forward proposal especially since the new proposal resets the Luna cap to only 1 billion tokens.
Luna is gone man. I’m not sure how so many people still believe Luna can be saved. It’s already d**d and buried.
Whatever fork comes out of this is going to be very very different since it wont use UST. Which means pretty much all the dapps on Terra will need a re-work.
I don’t want to see a fork. I want to fix the underlying issues and move on.
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@FatMan - how would they falsify transactions documented from the exchange? And you’re already ok for those who sold for .98 to get close to another 100% refund?
While I agree we should put measures in place to prevent people from getting more than they are entitled, I’d rather people who really need the money to survive get it “quick” even if it means some people get more than they should.
They should not factor in addresses after the 1st depeg and would be too early for this proposal since there were still many UST assets on the platform at that time. I am hoping @fatman is proposing the snapshot to be during the 2nd depeg event as the snapshot when it plunged to 0.92 and kept dropping. By considering the 2nd depeg snapshot you weed out most of the large whales since the large whales are what caused the 2nd depeg.
The 1st depeg should not be considered since LFG defended it and rose it back up to 0.99. Where the issue came was after the 2nd depeg which is when the 2 Anchor withdrawal transactions occurred and the sales of that UST depegged UST for the 2nd time.
That’s a pretty delusion outlook. Read the room, bud. It’s not possible to save the ecosystem as it currently stands. TFL have accepted this. You should too.
All non-blockchain documents can be falsified. Even exchanges are directly involved, there is a massive amount of money at stake and we can’t rule out malicious actors within the exchange itself. If you hand a mid-level Binance or FTX employee a blank cheque that he can write to a friend for up to $50k a pop, do you think there’s no chance he would take it? I wouldn’t be so idealistic.
There will definitely be some people who sold high who will profit a lot from this scheme. It’s probably the biggest issue with this proposal. However, it’s still the best solution we have and it beats all alternatives. We can also choose our snapshot window carefully to exclude the smaller depegs - we can start from the first major one.
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I think we can negotiate with exchange, I think exchange will be happy to help on this, officially provide all account based UST related transaction to refund comittee, you only need to count the first sell transcation, ignore the transaction after that
for example, a man hold 50k UST, sent to exchange, sell 25k at $0.9, sell 25k at $0.4, buy back 50k at $0.1 and sell 50k again at $0.1, you only need to count the first two sell order that completely sold his 50k UST, it will be more complicated and take time, but I think it’s necessary, since I don’t think there is much left in LFG reserve, every penny need to refund to people who really lose their money
Thanks
If they take Snapshot the minute before the depeg, they could know how much UST each had.
That would be the max refund you could get.
In order to get that refund, one would have to deposit/transfer UST.
So if someone sold UST, they cannot get a refund unless they buy it back now from the exchange. This way you ensure that no one double dips and maybe it will create a demand pressure that will repeg UST.
The swaps to USD from UST occurred only after the UST was transferred to the exchange. We need only to track the transfer to the exchange.
Get all transfers to exchanges from the blockchain. For each transfer, ask the associated exchange to verify whether that account subsequently traded out of UST, and at what price. This would be done programmatically, you wouldn’t have people manually compiling and checking lists.
But you’re not being meticulous. You’re simply ignoring a huge flaw in your scheme.
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I’ve been in the space for over five years and seen some crazy shit.
Not sure why you’re counting yourselves out when there’s enough confidence to maintain a luna MC over $1bn.
No, that’s not how it works… You can’t assume people sold the very instant they deposited onto an exchange. Many are still holding or have limit orders.
I have addressed the problems with this over twenty times now, so I’m going to refrain from answering again. Take a look at my last few replies, please.
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I think he has the best intention with this proposal and I love it but it needs to be treated like an insurance claim. One by one. There is no shortcuts.
However, it is so expensive and almost impossible to verify this when money is in a CEX wallet. Here is my address on FTX for my UST. terra1luagdjcr9c9yvp3ak4d7chjm5gldcmgln5rku5
You will see there are 260,526,722,151 LUNA and 1,790,364 UST is sitting there. NO, this is not mine. CEXes have 1 address for all so how is this going to be verified other than reaching out to someone in every CEX to confirm (1-by-1) and who is going to pay this?
Asking for a screenshot / proof can be very easily phoshoped so that is not an option!
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The investigations have already begun. No proposals are going to pass because TFL con men are going to prison. Just watch what happens this week. These scammers are about to get what they deserve.
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@FatMan - ok, maybe the snapshot should be taken at the time when it was significantly off peg although not sure what that number would be that makes the most sense.
Don’t run away when you don’t have an answer. I have read all of your replies and you have not addressed it. If you have, provide a link.
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