What am I missing? How is TCV related to TFLs Terra Station other than (maybe) being a public fcd/lcd endpoint they use?
@echel0n
Would it be possible to add a feature in Rebel Station to easily switch between TR and public-owned fcd/lcd endpoints (will need to be CORS excluded). Could help spread the load in times to come…
I believe TFL announced back in December or maybe January an agreement with TCV that TCV will be responsible for ongoing support and maintenance of the legacy Terra Station app.
I have some questions.
Who owns Rebel Station and the Infrastructure associated with running and maintaining it?
How many active users does Rebel Station provide direct access to?
Have you attempted other outside funding for these efforts?
Do you currently, in the future have plans to sell advertisement space on Rebel Station?
Are there any plans to make Rebel Station a for profit? Who would be the benefactor of the profits gained from any advertisements, revenue generation based on this infrastructure?
…I see, that explains the competitive spirit. I wonder if they (TCV) were also told by TFL that they were going to pull it apart and modularize it without inbuilt swap capabilities. This feels like TCV were given a hot potatoe to care for tbh.
Would still be nice if Rebel Station had the ability to switch over on-demand to those public nodes…feels like a win-win to me.
(on that note I’ll go quite and enjoy the civilised discussion taking place)
In the amount of time and money allotted to you before this, you haven’t improved the wallet from the perspective of functionality apart from improving the UI and a few things here and there like the validators list. The amount of money invested for the work is enough to finish the work and innovate further. You have taken this work like normal work, not like community work. I have said this for the L1 Task Force as well that they have taken the work too formally while this should have been done with passion and interest. You should have been the ones who should have suggested to us what extra features can be added to the wallet and whether it can become an Interstation Wallet like the Luna Wallet. You should have worked with the L1 team to make that happen, but instead what we are looking at is another spend proposal for 3 more months of maintenance and bug fixes.
It was stated in the previous prop that improvements on station and related apps would come in the form of a new spend prop.
For the time the wallet was funded till now, there is no proper support system setup for the wallet users. If I am in good terms with you, I can join the Discord group and beg to TR for help. But the proactive response of the team to provide a non-biased portal for support has not been done and you have replied saying that it is something that you are thinking about. With this kind of support, we will not be able to make this wallet globally acceptable for payments because payment providers like Gpay and Paytm have an active support service because of which people use that payment provider. You need to understand that we wish to see Terra Luna Classic grow to more users, not create a system which restricts the number of users using an application. We will never grow if our service isn’t world class
We are addressing this by creating dedicated support forums and assigning staff to them.
You have bought hardware servers instead of acquiring AWS or GCP servers like we had previously. I do not know how the community can even get access to hardware servers and who will retain them if by chance you do not continue maintaining the wallet. Also, I do not know why powerful hardware servers are required for the LCD and FCD also. If it was running from AWS, it must be possible to run it from AWS. I don’t know how much your AWS costs are, but at the cost of 1 server in my currency, I could have run a powerful server on AWS for 1-2 years depending upon which server we need. We could have even got that subsidized since Google and Amazon both offer free servers to non-profits. You did not do this till now even though I had mentioned this during the time you were asking for the funding initially. You have Nebilio’s support also. I see more costs, rather than less costs, which should have been the logical scenario in this case
AWS or GCP is vastly more expensive on running costs when you start to factor in the NVMe storage aspects, then there’s the snapshot storage and bandwidth fee’s, we explored this avenue and found the solution we went with to be much less then what it would be if we went AWS, specially long-term.
As mentioned here, there is a public node which is being operated by TerraCVita and AllNodes. In fact, it is possible for other validators to operate nodes as well. You did not reveal this information when I asked if there are more nodes which are running currently. This makes me wonder if this proposal has an artificial sense of urgency embedded into it for the wrong reasons.
I never mentioned it as having validators run public LCD nodes is a bad idea, there is a bug in terrad that causes sync issues when tendermint endpoints are accessed, and validators run pruned nodes, not archival nodes, which are required, then there’s the need for FCD and API, its not an option that we had not thought about, we just found in the end it was not a viable stable option
What? Is the L1 team aware about that? Is that the mev tendermint something they were talking about?
The smaller sized versions? Aren’t the validators supposed to run the full nodes?
Can you elaborate? What exactly do you mean by this?
PROPOSAL AMENDMENT
Helpdesk support for Rebel Station and related apps, we will create a forum for this where everyone can come and ask support questions and be able to read past support questions/answers, we will be adding in K_raucks to the support team to help with this as they have been already providing such support through our discord server, no additional funding / wage will be requested via this prop for this addition to the support team.
Who owns Rebel Station and the Infrastructure associated with running and maintaining it?
Terra Rebels owns the infrastructure hardware and maintains both it and Rebel Station
How many active users does Rebel Station provide direct access to?
Its public infrastructure that can be used by anyone that wants to use it
Have you attempted other outside funding for these efforts?
Neblio was our outside funding and that has now been terminated
Do you currently, in the future have plans to sell advertisement space on Rebel Station?
No
Are there any plans to make Rebel Station a for profit? Who would be the benefactor of the profits gained from any advertisements, revenue generation based on this infrastructure?
No, there are no plans for that
Yes, coding changes could be made in Rebel station to support multiple backend infrastructures, however, since we are not allnodes, we can not guarantee that their infra would operate the same as our infra, such as history and swap works on ours but currently does not on theirs, they support TFL station, and our Rebel station is vastly different and will continue to grow apart code-wise, so you can see why this would be a possible issue.
I was thinking more in line with utilizing their lcd/fcd for i.e. redundancy/reduced latency purposes via Rebel Station UI.
I would think since the APIs used by the endpoints (and please correct me if I’m wrong) are identical (columbus-5) it would be a plug-and-play when paired with Rebel Station, since the last is part of the original classic code, and therefore would allow them to be used fully as opposed to Terra Station which limits their use case.
[anywho, it’s just an idea]
How many active users does Rebel Station provide direct access to?
Its public infrastructure that can be used by anyone that wants to use it
On this, the question is how many current active users does Rebel Station service?
For LCD we run Mantlemint, we have no idea what they run, also our FCD will be customized to suit our application needs, so that would be an issue, also you can imagine that a chain upgrade would cause havoc with station if station is grabbing info from different endpoints that have not fully upgraded.
I would also add that from a technical support perspective it would be difficult to provide a consistent level of support if Rebel Station is utilizing infrastructure we do not control (i.e. it will be difficult to debug issues if we do not have access to the backend logging etc).
@UteXvg, @Rex1 has asked the same question a bit further up the post and the reply for that is here:
Worth reading through some of the other answers to the questions @Rex1 and @arunadaybasu asked. It was a nice set and they do for some interesting reading.
@echel0n, @raider7019 Gotsa; I suppose a disclaimer is the only way out of that, but I can see how things can get ugly fast in certain scenarios. Thanks for the knowledge share.
Thank you for your responses.
I would ask why TR is requesting funding from the whole community for privately owned and operated wallet. This all assumes that TR was given 150K USD as a grant for private infrastructure rather than infrastructure owned by the blockchain and community. If it is as you claim not owned by Lunc Community and Block Chain then I am unsure why we should pay for continued operations, maybe a better path for TR is to seek outside funding, as well as funding from users of the product?
What happened to the returned funds from those who returned there wage payments these were large figures but i cant see them taken in to account anywhere ? and adjusted figure cos thats was just left spare unless is was divided between those who retained there payments ?
I understand but you would have had more funds if you didn’t use a part of the 150k to pay moderators etc which was never included in the proposal.
TerraCVita have a set up and also TFL’s Station.
Suggest you need to find a way to self fund like Terraport has.
The misuse of scarce funds last time means I can’t vote to give any more money to TR.
The funds where attributed to the completion of a fully independent infrastructure, including apps to run on it, this was accomplished, so continued discussion over how those funds got spent or whom they got given to is really just dancing around that the work was completed and delivered as promised, that is undeniable.
This prop goes into loads of detail as to what and whom will receive those funds and what they are for, which is exactly what was mentioned to be lacking in the previous prop, we listened and made that right in this prop.
However you choose to vote going forward is your choice and right, what I asked of people is please don’t bring all the drama into this Agora post, its tiring and really becoming unproductive, feel free to ask questions related to this Agora prop and those will get answered.
Thanks!
totally incorrect as the community we paid TR for a job so we can and are full allowed to question what happened to the funds that were returned as they werent used you should refund those to the cp
No one said you are not allowed to ask questions, I simply asked that you do so not in this Agora post, no reason you can’t ask those questions in the original Agora post that was created for that particular spend prop, no need to have this Agora post get off track with what its purpose is.
Thanks!