Great revision Rabbi, I fully support this prop. Thank you!
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I donāt agree with this part Jebediah, the salaries should be a certainty not subject to change or a surprise to the community if the team composition changes, but clear for the whole Q2. If any devs decline their amount should be returned to the CP. If this proposal gets support this is a test funding and the Q2 will be to prove themselves. If they do a great job they can all ask for a pay rise in Q3. We donāt need issues with wage changes after a vote has passed, it will just cause unnecessary problems.
Can you provide more information about the background and skills of the new 4 proposed devs? Also, IMO Solid should be at least 2.5k p/m so theyāre not working for nothing while everyone else gets paid. A voluntary 50% cut is more than enough if they want to show their resolve and put their name/org out there.
Also can you confirm that this team will not be working on the AI side chain, and will not be working on the Ziggurat proposal for Q2, unless it comes under a separate prop? I am considering this still. Regards.
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I would suggest doing it per month for the first 3 months so to alleviate community fear.
I also dont agree with the below
If any dev refuse funding the money should go to the cp and not split out
āIf this proposal passes and any of the developers listed above refuse to accept the money or do the work, the funding allocated to them will be split evenly among the remaining developers. If all of them refuse, the money will remain within the community pool. If Superman (InonMan) returns at a later time, we will submit an additional funding proposal just for him, to re-join the L1 team (weād love to have him on board if possible!).ā
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this sounds more promising, ill support this 
Interesting proposal. Issues I have are that some of the above in the team have caused dramas. Who are these new developers. What are their skills and who have they worked for? How can we justify paying this Iād we donāt know their experience per say?
Also we need to keep in mind Binances support for the chain, try and cut them out and the community will not support this.
Many thanks.
I have the same question. @RabbiJebediah would really appreciate it if you could let us know about this in details.
Who are these developers exactly?
P.S. It is taking a lot of time for you to reply to this. I dunno how you can manage the team with the time you have.
Iām working with Rabbi on an amended L1 JTF roadmap. More on that soon. From my perspective, the required next steps are clear. We need:
- Knowledge transfer from L1 JTF in regards to progress from Q1 - Whatās done, whatās not actually done, whatās still in flight, etc. I want most of this knowledge transfer to be focused around parity, because other tasks I can figure out from Github commits, but if they had internal documents that they were keeping that wasnāt shared with the community, we need to know about those, particularly when it comes to their exploration around achieving parity and any impacts that may happen to smart contracts and WASM state.
For parity to happen we need to get a solid testnet up and running. Not a simulated one (although that can be helpful), but an actual testnet where we can test out how the chain state is impacted by the software upgrade in a manner that doesnāt impact our mainnet. Thereās effort to get there, but we canāt just keep doing software upgrades on mainnet āliveā, if you will. We need to have testnet software upgrades at smaller scales first so that we can have more confidence when we actually deploy software upgrades to mainnet, IMO. We also need Jacob to look over the parity changes and provide his in-depth Cosmos knowledge to point out things that most people would miss, as an additional safety net before trying to embark on the upgrade. But before any of that can happen I need to actually know what level of progress the L1 JTF was at with parity.
Iām not going to make that statement, because itās a singular statement. Iām not going to get Terra Luna Classic to parity by myself. This isnāt the Bilbo show. Iām not like Zaradar. Weāre going to get to parity by working together as a development team, chain, and community. Of course that means that weāll also be collaborating with TFL and other teams, and those collaborations should happen in a manner that is more visible to the community as well.
I agree with you. Wanted to do this for quite some time now. Alliance modules play a role in the whitepaper weāve been working to help try and bring new liquidity to the chain. One step at a time though. We need to get to parity first before we can start looking at those kinds of next steps.
Swaps need to be fixed. Not just turned back on, fixed. Weāve been looking at a new algorithm to help fix the flaws the original $1 LUNC === 1 USTC market module had as an issue, but weāre not fully there yet. Can talk more about that later, for now Iāll just try to keep discussion focused to this specific proposal around the L1 team.
Youāre correct that we need to maintain and improve the docs. Itās not the strongest priority compared to everything we need to do to get the chain sustainable in terms of the community pool, achieve parity, and reduce our circulating supply and total supply, but itās not something that can be left behind either. If you have specific examples of the docs being out of date Iād be open to hearing about this.
Weāre purposefully trying to keep the community pool as un-impacted as possible, while also giving ourselves the bare minimum we can handle in order to help the chain, get things back on the right track, and demonstrate value. Getting the chain sustainably funding the community pool solves this problem.
This seems like a pretty unfair conclusion to reach. Youāre basically conflating me with Zaradar and saying that Iāll fail before weāve even started.
Iām in every community Discord server that Iām aware of, and Iāve posted on Agora often. But people need to sleep! I donāt need people to summon me to the Agora - I check it and the Discord every day 
Iām not isolated away from the community like Zaradar was. You can find me very easily.
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I will vote NO with veto, those devs are unknown, and Gaining is hated and rejected by the community, too many money spent for partial time, lunc is not a hobbyā¦ Full time or nothing. Itās looks like a scam proposal
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and yet, with the last team with a KNOWN āleadā dev, still havenāt accomplished much of the Q1 tasks that were presented yet are asking for even more money, I think your ignorance is preventing you from seeing a better path.
I think have newer devs proving themselves is good, maybe they will show excellent work beyond what we are expecting? how can we grow if we keep a closed mind like you are portraying?
with such detail, and those on the proposal have been active in the community for a while, example is, Bilbo and Jacob helped the chain during the halt.
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You have already identified the issue for me.
Itās not possible for you to communicate with us regularly, especially at a momentās notice.
I hope you understand that this development job is not like any other development job.
This isnāt an office. This is a community.
If I press you a little bit further, you will not be able to work and talk to me at the same time. And I am not the worst thing in the community by any standard.
I will not be the only one asking you questions and asking for explanations. I do not know how you plan to handle this AND development at the same time.
This is called avoiding a direct question. Because my question can either have a yes or no answer. If youāre not able to do it, you need to say that you canāt. If you need some other help to do it, then thatās what you need to say. We cannot have this conversation 3 months later. That is not gonna happen any more.
You need to clearly state whether or not you will be able to get this chain to parity. If the answer is no, then please say no. Then we shall decide on this proposal accordingly.
We do not need you to do any other work apart from Terra Luna Classic. No extra white papers are required if it isnāt ādirectlyā related to Terra Luna Classic. Please do not take up any extra work apart from the work that you are doing.
If you are employed somewhere else apart from this occupation, then please make that known to us in clear terms. We shall contact you or disturb you accordingly.
Will you agree to using a time tracking app for the work? I have already shared the app - itās called Timely. Check it up and let me know if this is agreeable to you. This is also a direct question. The answer can either be a yes or a no.
Zaradar wasnāt isolated from the community. Currently he just smashed his own foot with a sledgehammer because he was too involved in the community. We do not need a repeat of that.
You need to be involved here, on Agora. Not on Discord and Twitter. I donāt even know whether you are aware that there is no common Discord in Terra Luna Classic. You are talking about a TR or TCV server. THIS is the official platform for discussion. Agora.
P.S. If you think that you will be offended by my questions or you will refuse to do what I am asking you to do, then you will do the same with other community members as well. In fact, people like Anne wonāt even be able to talk back to you. I canāt let that happen.
Either you decide whether you are an EMPLOYEE of the community of which I am a part of as well and you are answerable to me like an EMPLOYEE is answerable to an EMPLOYER, or you do not attempt to do this at all.
Hold on, itās a good thing to have some available to communicate and answer to the community, but you cannot ask of someone to be available 24/7. I understand that the community outreach needs to be done, but surely you can ask for regular updates without forcing someone to be always available, no, thatās unreasonable. Iād be fine if we had even an update once or twice a week or so
Especially if Bilbo is going to work part-time, AND as a dev on top of the community outreach
As Bilbo said, thereās need to be some knowledge transfer, and he just explained that this is going to be a team effort, therefore it is not gonna be on his shoulder alone that parity will be achieved, thatās his answer
Now that almost looks abusive, you want to monitor a developerās every working hour, and for him to be able to communicate 24h/7, and that you would have an employee-employer relationship with the team ?
Please, donāt, I get where youāre coming from, and nobody wants a Zaradar 2.0, but Zaradar was the sole culprit and noone in the new team should be punished by such measures because of Zaradar.
Instead, I propose that a regular community update should be done, and that any developer of the team should behave in a professionnal way on Twitter. We just cannot assume that anyone in the team is going to be as unprofessional and sidetracked as Zaradar.
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I forgot to talk about a few more things.
What you mean by this is that you will not be able to secure funding for the team if we do not pay the L1 team from the CP next time as well.
Generating value on the chain is no guarantee that we will have enough to fund the team again. This seems extremely non-sustainable to me.
This is something we have to seriously re-consider. You are working part-time as well, so itās impossible for you to look out for these things as well as development.
How are you making a roadmap and telling me that you canāt guarantee parity of the chain? What exactly are you writing in the roadmap?
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heās a human being not a robot, Bilbo has also been very active on the Discord servers as well, but people also have to take care of real life issues as well, I mean we all eat,sleep,poop.
all I am saying, is that this is a little unfair to Bilbo.
again this strikes me as a bit unfair, the proposal hasnāt even passed yet already expecting an absolute answer, I feel like this is sort of setting up a trap personally no matter what he answers will be the wrong answer.
I have faith in Bilbo and team, at the same time I wouldnāt rush them for results and answers, specifically when they already mentioned they want to assess the situation that they will be going into.
again, it feels like your trying to put a leash on the teams time already, I understand that you are possibly trying to make sure this team isnāt a Zaradar 2.0, but we havenāt even had a vote to on this yet and also I had seen their activities from months prior and can attest that Bilbo has better communication than Zaradar.
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Very sorry, my previous replied got hidden by the bot, Iām not sure as to why, but Iāll try to reiterate (hopefully this post wonāt get hidden, wtf ?)
I was saying that I find this unreasonable to ask of someone to be available at a moment notice, meaning 24/7, especially to Bilbo who is going, it seems, to pile on both dev responsabilities and community reach.
This too seems quite nightmarish to the devs, especially if they are going to work part-time, and since most of them will be going to work part-time it would be best to judge them on their results, and that implies patience, and a review of the work done in the first half of the quart, as proposed iirc, or after each month as it has been suggested.
Again, this part bothers me, as the devs are contractors and not employees, and we pay for the contract, but to boss the team around seems exagerated.
As I said, I get where you are coming from, as nobody -including me- wants a Zaradar 2.0, but we cannot punish the next team with such drastic measures because of how sidetracked and dismissive he was, while other members like Vinh made a LOT of work, part-time.
I propose that we rather have regular update from the member charged of the community outreach, on a schedule that would be decided here, and that no member of this team should behave in an unprofessional way on Twitter.
As it is already proposed, a review of the team work should be done mid-term, as to unlock the rest of the payment or not, in my opinion that is the right amount of accountability ! If the first half of the Q2 is botched, then no payment, simple and effective.
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Whatās with the power trip? You proposed to be the manager. Start acting like one.
Oh and in that vein - You would be an employee. Answering to the rest of the chain.
And no money will be paid.
Like you said about LBA - a project manager of such a small team should do it out of the devotion for the chain. In service to the chain.
Happy managing!
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Dude Bilbo is literally online every evening European Time. I believe he is from elsewhere in the World. Cant blame people for that.
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Lmao at the comments @arunadaybasu, relax will ya?
Apologies to everyone for being late to the party, Iāve had a busy day!
Gonna grab some food real quick, then Iāll work my way through the thread and try to answer everyoneā¦
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This isnāt what I said. THIS is what I said:
You have to read this entire thing together to understand what I am saying. I have been seeing and hearing extremely condescending behavior by various members of the development team and their cheerleaders for the last few weeks. Such behavior is not acceptable since a developer IS and SHALL BE answerable to a community member. If the developer is not able to bury his ego and bring himself to do this, then please appoint a project manager who will do this. The developer can continue working with his ego, but the person we will be dealing with cannot be one who has any form of ego or superiority complex.
Similarly, itās unfair to Zaradar and the rest of the team as well that we are asking them questions and forcing them to be answerable to us 24x7 the last 4-5 days. We should not be keeping Zaradar awake throughout the night so that he needs to yawn in a live show to show how much he has worked. We should have let him sleep, cause sleep is important to the health and wellbeing of the body.
According to you, it would be much better if there was no accountability rather than actual, verifiable record of the time they have spent doing something. It would be much better to overpay them for work they havenāt done. Or the assumption is that they will not try to fool the community because they have an angel or spirit guiding them all the time to do the right thing.
This is what we had said for Ed and his team. You can go back to the discussion and check it. What people had said back then. They were talking like you till yesterday. Not so much right now anymore.
You arenāt forcing anyone. You are harassing them.
Entitlement is strong in you.
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This isnāt what I meant and I think youāre stretching things a bit. Iām all for accountability, but what youāre proposing is borderline harassment, please understand that you can have accountability without having to resort to such extreme measures.
I would rather have one or two reviews along the Q2 to assess how the work has advanced, and that would allow the community to have some insights about the āpaceā of the devs, and, as proposed by Rabbi, to āunlockā the remaining of the funds for the quarter with a community vote, if the community is satisfied with the work done at the time of the vote.
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