Expanded L1 Task Force Spending Prop for Q2 2023 [v2]

Governance & Proposals
81

Jebediah as you know and have proposed all these people, you are a de-facto team manager in a way, are you going to be involved throughout Q2 if this prop is successful or more hands off?

How about community engagement will Bilbo go on AMA’s or any other members of the team? Or will it just be written communication?

Will you have a social media policy? It might be a good idea to keep things going smoothly to stop things going overboard.

Well if Vin and Frag don’t agree to come (they very well may), there will be 15k left to be split up over 6 devs, I would suggest Solid would be bumped up in that case.

I don’t think the 7.5k extra over Q2 (if he was given 2.5k p/m) would break the prop, that’s up to you. That’s at least $625 a week to cover basic bills/expenses. It’s not a reason I would vote NO if you decide not to, but I think it’s inappropriate among his peers in the team he is paid at least 2.5k p/m.

Is there a budget for any pc/server related costs I know the L1TF had that in their budget, or will that be absorbed by the team for Q2?

Overall I have an open mind to this proposal and will consider it further when it is put forward for vote.

@solidsnake thank you for the reply.

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82

This would apply when I have asked for any money till now. This is not my proposal, and Rabbi is not my friend. Nor is anyone else here. I am not here to make friends and family.

I had volunteered to be a manager to the devs but Rabbi has clearly mentioned that HE is taking up the responsibility of the team, and he does NOT require my services as of now.

Ya me too. I wasn’t talking about the devs. I was talking about Rabbi. HE is undoxxed. The human being who is about to receive 120k CANNOT be undoxxed.

No one asked the devs to get doxxed. But if Rabbi isn’t doxxed, you are essentially throwing this money into a black hole hoping this will make more money.

I have already asked Rabbi whether or not this method is suitable to the team proposed. If it is, then they should begin work immediately cause we will need to check the work after 30 days to make their first payment to them. So I’d highly suggest getting to work.

If it is not, then Rabbi will probably need to get doxxed to receive this money. It can’t be given on the basis of blind faith to anyone. Not so much money. 10-20k is still fine for an undoxxed individual. Not 120k. Sorry.

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Hello, I’m one of the new proposed devs. I won’t doxx myself completely but my dev background includes over 7 years of professional Python, C#, C++, Java, Javascript, and Rust experience, and a few more years of non-professional hardware and software modding.

I’ve helped design, build, and ship many different cross-platform software products, on teams and as solo personal projects. About half of the software products I’ve worked on are still being used around the world to this day on many different devices and computers.

My crypto experience began in 2010 starting with BTC, 2014 with Dogecoin, 2015 with ETH, and then most recently with Polygon (formerly Matic), Cosmos, and now LUNC. It’s been a wild ride but I still believe in decentralized software being the future.

I hope to make a positive impact on LUNC behind the scenes and not let the community down, it’s already been through a lot.

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84

That’s not necessary if they make a multi sig wallet to receive the funds if anything goes wrong it will come upon all of the team. I don’t believe they are planning to run off with 120k, a small amount when split over many people, and ruin their reputations being blacklisted by the community. This an actual team of developers with 6 of 8 committed. This is not a scam proposal.

@solidsnake thank you for the information!

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85

Sure. I talked about this with Pholuna in Terra Allies as well, but I’ve worked with pretty much any language that is needed to do the job, honestly. It’s all just syntax at the end of the day and there’s a good amount of conceptual overlap between languages. The list is generally the same as you’d see from other developers with experience:

  • HTML / CSS
  • Javascript
  • Golang
  • Rust
  • Swift (iOS / OSX Apps)
  • Java / Kotlin (Android Apps)
  • Elixir / Erlang
  • Python
  • POSIX

In terms of what I work on, I’ve worked on websites, iOS apps, Android apps, etc. Both frontend and backend in all. You can’t provide a good user experience without being able to contribute to both the front-end and the back-end and identify opportunities for performance optimizations across the entire tech stack.

I haven’t worked on the terra-money repo, if only because there is no terra-money repo in particular; there is only the terra-money Github organization. In terms of whether I’ve contributed to the repos within the terra-money Github organization, like the core, station, or alliance repos, the answer is no. But I would like to change that this quarter by contributing to whatever non-canonical repo is created if this proposal were to be passed by the community. I know this response may come across as pedantic or me splitting hairs on the definition of “Github organization” vs. “repo”, and I apologize if that seems to be the case, but over the years as a developer I’ve learned that it’s better to be more precise on shared vocabulary so please do understand that I am not trying to be pedantic here, instead I am only trying to be specific.

Without doxxing myself, I can say that I’ve worked on backends for KYC (know your customer) systems, as well as payment processing systems. Immutable ledgers are familiar territory when you’ve had to work with those kinds of systems. And since a blockchain is basically just a distributed immutable ledger, you can see how the concepts overlap and knowledge can transfer between the two.

And thank you again for the consideration.

You’re welcome! :slight_smile:

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86

More hands-off. If this proposal passes, my job is done - the team can take it from there. They’re all seasoned professionals, they don’t need a babysitter wrangling them.

Written communication every time there’s a progress report. Also, unlike Zaradar, Bilbo doesn’t hide from the community - he’s online almost every day and you can reach him easily via Twitter or Discord (he’s in all the LUNC ones). You can always shoot him a message and talk if you need something. The point is for our developers to be available to the community that’s paying them, not walled off behind self-built walls like Tobias (or absent like Ed due to his many IRL obligations).

Yes. Number one rule is to keep things professional! Devs will dev, not waste time on social media. You can still reach them and talk if you need to (like mentioned above), but they’re being paid to work, not troll and bait the community every day like Tobias does.

Yes, that could be arranged I suppose. It all depends on Frag and Vinh joining or not.

I suppose we could bump him up to $2500/month. :thinking: It won’t break the bank - the spending would clock in at less than 50% of the current community pool (and that’s over 3 months, with the 2nd half after 8 weeks). I guess it shouldn’t be a problem then, there’s still plenty of money in the CP for other projects. :+1:

That’s been factored into the salaries already, no extra budget.

Cheers! :+1: I know we’ve had our differences in the past and argued about a lot of proposals, but it’s mighty Christian of you to insist on fair payment for Snake. I respect that a lot. :pray:

I said no such thing. Like I replied to @JESUSisLORD above, I will not be “managing” or “overseeing” the team - they’ll be doing that themselves! They’re all experienced professionals, not junior devs; they can self-direct, and don’t need anyone outside the team to tell them what to do. I’d just get in their way! :joy:

I’m not the one who’ll be in charge of the payouts/money, since I’m not being paid anything! My only job here was/is to write the prop and introduce the team to the community - apart from that, I have no further input or influence. Stop making things up! :rage:

Dude you really need to stop talking nonsense. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

You haven’t read the OP, have you? If the proposal passes, the team splits $60,000 from the community pool. Then after 8 weeks have gone by, we’ll put up another proposal here on the Agora (and Station) for the community to assess the team’s work over the past 2 months and vote whether they should receive the other $60,000. This was done on purpose to protect community money!!

Now @arunadaybasu if you have sane questions I’ll respond, but only if you stop lying.

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87

This is nonsense. You wanna say that the wallet given in the proposal is of 6 developers? What are you saying even? Are you fine?

When the proposal goes up for vote, there is ONLY ONE WALLET address given over there to receive the funding.

Who’s wallet is that? 6 people’s? It isn’t YOUR wallet?

Don’t keep beating around the bush for no reason at all.

No matter what you say to me, you are not explaining yourself. Doesn’t seem like it. And I can already see how you will behave with the rest of the community when this passes. You are already pis(sed. And you are claiming you will be able to control your rage and do this work with a straight mind :slightly_smiling_face:

Technically speaking, if you shrug off the responsibility required to be taken up by you, then there is NO ONE RESPONSIBLE for anything in this team currently.

Since you are not a dev yourself, you have no idea about how responsible devs generally are. That’s why you are saying all these childish things.

88

You guys can private message each other at this point. There’s just too much back and forth of the same individuals. :laughing:

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89

Please answer this question clearly - have you, or have you not, worked on a blockchain before this?

If yes, please name the blockchain(s) you have worked on.

For example, I have worked on Ethereum and EOS and the code is there on my public GitHub repos (I meant organization before this. You are correct. Thanks for that).

There is absolutely no issue even if you have not worked on a blockchain before this, but for us to have a clear idea about the task force we have at hand, we will need to know the answer to this clearly in a yes or a no.

I understand that you have designed other kinds of systems before this so there should not be any problem in dealing with a blockchain in general, but do you know about the Cosmos ecosystem in general? If not, how long would it take for you to get up to speed with it, if you started work today (as an example)?

What would be your individual experience with respect to JavaScript and Rust? If you could let us know in number of months, I would be obliged.

Does this include any L1 blockchain work? If yes, please name the blockchain you have worked on.

When you say “cross-platform” products, do you mean they are made in React Native or ElectronJS or similar? Were you working on the backend or the frontend? Your skillset is of a backend engineer. It looks like the skillset of a data scientist. “Cross-platform” has nothing to do with the backend, so I would be grateful if you could explain this part again.

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90

@RabbiJebediah since you are not answering this question directly, I am asking you again.

Who’s wallet are you planning to send the funds to when the funding prop vote is passed?

Is it a multi sig wallet? Who are the holders of the multisig wallet? Please mention their IRL names. They need to be doxxed. Please don’t tell me right now that you are planning to send the funds to TGF first.

Is a singular person managing the funding wallet? If yes, please give us the IRL name of the person managing this wallet. He or she needs to be doxxed as you can understand.

For $60,000 and for $6 also. It doesn’t matter. The person managing this wallet needs to be a real human being with a real name and we should know what the name of this person is.

If it’s Bilbo, then Bilbo will need to doxx himself. If it’s Ed, you need to disclose that to us.

I will wait for your reply on this. I have been extremely respectful in this conversation and all my questions are related to the topic. So please oblige.

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91

Look, Arubasu, it was fun at some point seeing you eat your own words from comment to comment, demand entitled explanations at every moment, listen to you claim how you have a background in devOps and you could do L1, give out such opinions that project manager should be free work, yet you’ll do it for a grand a month and so forth and so on.

But it’s becoming repetitive. You will say whatever you need to say at any given time. You hold no firm stance towards anything in particular and simply blurt out whatever you have to say at a given moment to win an argument.

At the core:

  • The cost isn’t that competitive with the original L1 and the payment structure is somewhat flimsy, yet we are paying below market prices and expect not only perfection, but idealism, 24/7 access, documentation, restructuring of the mess, decent behaviour, no bullshit tweeting, no fudding on Agora, some expect the dev work to be reflected in mad price increases, devs are expected to put up with bullshit being flung at them, expected to answer courteously if you shat on their work.

  • We strive towards defi, but act centralized. Doxxing has no value. It doesn’t put pressure on anyone. If they set out to scam - they’ll scam regardless. You touted how you have NGO’s and are doxxed and whatnot and at the same time you gleefully mentioned how the justice system in India would be slow. Not to mention that a non-entity such as ourselves are handing out the funds. It’s pointless bickering to demand doxxing if doxxing gives us likes of you and Zaradar.

  • You focus on the money aspect heavily, since as you point out in every other topic - you are from a country where such amounts would go a long way.
    You then contradict yourself - “volunteering” to a be manager, yet then provide the service for a 1000 USD a month.
    You asked for 100k and a percentage in perpetuity for a trading bot that has no proof of concept that it could work and uou won’t develop it yourself, but you do have access to cheap labour and you provide the community with such a gift. Just taking your cut. Nevermind the fact that you keep pointing out how underfunded the CP is - that part isn’t important if personal gain is it hand. True for a grifter.

  • You claim to have technical background, but basic maintenance on a blockchain is a foreign concept.
    You talk of civility, code of conduct, yet spew nonsense on Agora, rouse up drama. No, it’s probably not intentional, since you often are in a disagreement with yourself. Flip flopping around

(I mean, your latest inquisition in Senate style towards SolidSnake gave me a laugh. Is this another Tiktok hearing?)

You haven’t provided any sense of understanding what your specific skillset is nor have shown any understanding towards the structure of this, yet you feel entitled to question, misinform, misinterpret most everything. All under the narcissistic guise of “I do it for the chain”.

  • It’s a god damn decentralized blockchain that has had a turbulent history. It’s not a cult.

And I hope you take some time off from Agora. You are too obsessed with this place and you have ample free time to bash around here. Perhaps, use this time to actually prove your worth like you ask others to do?

I don’t agree with every approach this proposal takes, but my agreement with minute details isn’t a necessity and hinges on differences of an opinion for the same outcome.
Frivoulous details do not hold greater weight than the perceivable outcome and greater potential good this does at the given timeframe, with the given tools at our disposal.

So, this will be a Yes from me. I expect it to go to vote after 7 days is concluded on Agora and I would hope that this prop by the ol’ goat actually passes.

Good luck and happy Easter, everyone.

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92

Personally i want to see new developers being onboarded like you are trying to do.

Both Bilbo and Solidsnake have been very open to answering any questions i have and i have spoken to Jacob on many occasions too, i believe his knowledge of cosmos is what we need in the developer team.

I very much hope Frag and Vinh will be willing to work with a changed team - although i understand it is a bit nerve wracking meeting new collegues for the first time and their is a history between Jacob and Vinh.

To move forward we need a change - that is evident.

I personally am willing to give this team a chance and see.

I have had many in depth conversations with both Rabbi and Bilbo and although in the past Rabbi and myself have fought, i do believe from these converations they have the chains best interest at heart.

I hope the community/validators reach out and discuss their concerns with Rabbi and the team further instead of blindly voting no.

It is clear that Tobias was good at talking himself up to earn himself money, however whether other community members wish to admit it or not if you really look indepth into his tweets and behaviour he didnt care about the chain or the community it was just about what HE could get out of it.
Imo thats not someone we want to work on the chain let alone as a lead developer.
He told many lies and lies about other people to fool the community into thinking he was the only one that could “save” us.

We are strong and not reliant on one person.

We all play a part in this, it is just that some roles are more significant than others- but every single active member does play a part in the revival.

I would just like people to look at the facts
We are getting more developers for less money
If we dont like the job they have done after thos quarter we can release them.
If we think we need to do something different and set up a different structure it gives time to do that while people are still working on the chain.

Tbh Its a yes from me

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93

I didn’t say that. YOU said that. I said that a Project Manager for this task SHOULD be paid around $1000 per month. Not more than that.

If you want me to manage this team and want me to work for free for doing that, I can do it for free for a month after which you can review my work and pay me accordingly if you feel my work is of value to the L1TF and the community at large. If my work is not up to the mark, I will resign immediately. It won’t even require a vote. I am extremely sure about my work.

I have also asked Rabbi whether this is agreeable to the rest of the team as well (that you work for 1 month for free first, then take the funds in a vote), since that is the best case scenario for us without too much liability.

But Rabbi doesn’t agree to that. My offer is still open and I am still saying that at least one neutral person (or someone from the other faction) SHOULD be an oversight for this team. In fact, there should be an Oversight Committee like last time as mentioned previously in this thread.

Again, this is what YOU are saying, not me. Read my last comment on that thread - I have demanded for 10-20k and I have said that I will move it in due course of time. I didn’t even ask for anything till now. Asking would entail to uploading a proposal for vote. I haven’t done that yet and I am yet to modify that proposal and come up with a new reduced budget. I will definitely require money for it and the reasons I have stated very clearly in that thread. Go and read it and do not talk nonsense about others in the community trying and get some other proposal passed. I haven’t even gone back to those proposals cause these ones were so important.

Are you taking responsibility for that on behalf of the L1 Task Force so that if by chance, this endeavour fails, we can hold you responsible to have suggested this to us? Please let me know your real name Don so that I can keep this on record.

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I assume Jacob and the others are part-time? Is there any hour requirements expected per week? Asking because of this below. What’s his idea of “a few hours per month”?

Screenshot_20230406-183951_Chrome
Screenshot_20230406-183951_Chrome720×389 113 KB

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@RabbiJebediah you wanna pay Jacob $5,000 per month for a “a few hours of review per month”? Really? :smiling_face_with_tear:

Is this how you are planning to distribute this money?

You accuse L1TF of mismanagement of funds and go and do this after that? Can you explain to us what the f(ck is this?

His salary is $1,000 per hour? :sunglasses: Man, I wish I had this life.

Please ask the other two developers to come here and interact with us. Please also ask the ones who have come here to come back and reply to my questions.

It seems like you have not completely disclosed all information related to the 4 new developers. One says he has NEVER worked on blockchain systems till now, the other is saying he has worked on WEB 2.0 till now.

So, you have included the salary of two people saying that they are blockchain developers (SINCE THIS IS A L1 DEVELOPMENT TEAM) but they are actually NOT. What exactly should I understand this as? Mismanagement of personnel or funds?

Please ask the other two developers to come here and provide us with an account of their experience with blockchain development.

If these 4 developers DO NOT have any experience with blockchain development, including their names in this list will entail to misleading the community and is no different than TR or the previous L1TF budgets. I am sorry to say that.

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96

Exactly right. At some point you have to roll the dice and I (personally after watching Rabbi over the past year dealing with the issues at hand) believe he can take the chain forward. Someone has to galvanise the community and devs. We have a punchy individual who keeps reminding us it’s not all about him (this is refreshing).

His belief in the senior devs to act on their own volition without constant handholding is also refreshing. I really am behind him and a complete changing of the guard. Less talk, more action. Less drama, more doing. And less complaints and more positivity.

We have an opportunity to make something happen here.

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98

Im not sure why this post has been flagged?

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99

Rabbi please don’t use extra and spare profiles you have and use your original profile to come back and reply here. I know it’s you. Please stop doing this for once. This is serious and what you are doing is extremely childish.

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Nope - I’m certainly not an “alt” @arunadaybasu . I joined during the LUNC crash last May when I lost a considerable amount of money. See my comment history for all the things I’ve supported (and not).

But you seem pretty keen on destroying your public image, so well done.

You have little support for anything and even less decency.

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101

Whats childish is flagging comments because you dont agree with them

Please stop

You are not the only person with things to say and not everybody will agree with what you say.

Just because you have said them doesnt mean it is right so please grow up so we can continue a healthy debate

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