Signalling Proposal - Create an Alternative L1 Team ran by Notional Labs

@Mpowski: I can say to you how Jacob wants to resolve the situation. The endless Twitter nights condense down to the following strategy of his: He wants to ask all delegators to redelegate from Allnodes.

:clap:

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THAT is 1000% what I can agree with. In my opinion Notional releasing their point of view - with priorities and tasks that need completed would br an important read for the LUNC Community. This is the only way we can make an informed decision on the way forward. And hopefully from this point we could reach some common ground.

This problem in my opinion boils down to a failed mediation. A proper mediator would see what both parties want to achieve and discuss this within the team.

Should that fail, put up 2 competing options for a governance vote.

This is my aim - to step in as a community and finish the mediation process as it should have been performed.

This needs to be chosen by LUNC Stakers - not individuals in the L1 Team. They did not get a mandate to make such decisions on their own.

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Why push this false narrative?
It was JG who first started the tweeting war with the comment of “He can’t be in L1 if Zaradar is clueless” (Not word for word).

JG did not only tweet some 20+ times, but he also finally quit out of his own volition since he didn’t find this venture profitable.

At what exact time between his poop flinging and quitting was he “stopped from proposing a solution?”

He isn’t a victim. He created yet another drama so he could bow out of this chain.

Edit: You can ask Notional to put up their own proposal, if they so choose. A proposal that is from them.

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Just look at his twitter comment where he literally asked @faddat to connect with him. It’s a false flag collaboration between @Mpowski @NovaValidator where @faddat and NotionalLabs are the benficiaries.

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I have not sought out the links between these individuals, yet thank you for that information. I’ll look into it.

This proposal is clearly a farce however without a single solution towards the threat itself.

No with veto.

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@Mpowski @fragwuerdig

I have already shared with Jacob my proposal to address this security issue within the LUNC chain.

But he wanted a slightly larger project.

I don’t want to speculate on his intentions. Anyway, he wants a development that can affect a whole of cosmos ecosystem. I hope his project will succeed.

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Nothing wrong with having an alternative.

BUT! L1TF is doing their job well atm. They are well ahead of schedule and they still have (payed) mandate until end of Q1.

Come out with better ideas as them for Q2/Q3 and then put that up for voting.

So… no atm.

And to be fair. Jacob needs some professional help to sort out his communication skills.

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No with veto

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We have no presence in the L1 task force anymore.

I see. Thank you for clarification.

You’re shifting the argument. You accused me of trying to create more division. Guess what. The community’s already divided, and you have Tobias downplaying the risk at hand to thank for that. Not me. I’m simply trying to inform you of a piece of information you may not know about, which is that because of Tobias’ actions non-compromised validators have been having to deal with this mess all week.

As for your claims that I only just contacted Allnodes for the first time a few hours ago, get your facts straight. You are just demonstrating that you aren’t as informed on this matter as you think you are.

This proposal doesn’t call for changing L1 Teams. It’s calling for two L1 Teams that operate in parallel. Read the proposal more thoroughly next time before jumping to reactions of accusing me of division and power plays. If the chain gets destroyed any power that any validator could accumulate from this situation doesn’t matter. This isn’t about power. This is about survival and protection of people’s funds. If you were a developer you would be just as alarmed as I am right now.

Completely irrelevant. They succeed as a team, they fail as a team. Business 101.

False, as Jacob has had to correct you on. Further demonstration that you need to get your facts straight.

That’s correct. Because that’s not what this proposal aims to do. Solving the issue you’ve described is an entirely different situation that would require working with the entire wider cosmos ecosystem to implement validator key rotations so in the future when these types of issues happens validators can simply rotate their keys without having to remake their validators. But that’s a hard problem that doesn’t get done overnight, and would take tons of development work and a lot of time and coordination with other teams in cosmos to realize. We can’t afford to wait for the time needed to fix that issue, because the chain would still be at risk that entire time and things would get worse for us as time goes on. This proposal seeks to embark on the first step to being able to solve the issue of compromised validators refusing to remake their validators and validator wallets by procuring an L1 team that has demonstrated a willingness and understanding of what is needed to solve the issue at hand, since our current L1 Team that we’ve engaged with is refusing to even acknowledge it’s a problem, which is a fundamental failure on their part.

Tobias is wrong. He is causing harm to the chain. I suggest you go talk with developers outside of the Terra Classic chain that exist in the wider cosmos and get an idea of their perceptions on Tobias and how he’s handling this risk to Terra Classic. You will soon see my opinion on this matter is not unique.

Jacob is telling the truth. Tobias is factually lying. Don’t believe me - go read the Tendermint docs about how Consensus works. Right now the chain is giving itself the exact reputation it deserves by refusing to solve this issue and just taking what Tobias says at face value.

Situations change all the time. You know this. This is an ever changing situation and a lot is happening. The end result is still the same. We have a problem that needs solving, and it is much more likely that Jacob will be capable of helping the community solve the problem then Tobias. So let’s hedge our bets and engage both. Maybe over time Tobias will come to see reason as the issue actually starts getting solved.

Now you’re assuming intent. Again. I created this proposal because we need to hedge our bets and start moving the needle to actually get rid of this risk to the chain.

The title of this proposal is “Create an Alternative L1 Team ran by Notional Labs”, not “Recreate the existing L1 Team we have” - read the proposal. As for saying I’m not actually actively trying to fix the situation, go check my Twitter: https://twitter.com/OhhBilboBaggins I’ve been trying to reach out to compromised validators to remake their validators and validator wallets all week and they’ve been stonewalling me because of Tobias’ words and their own outright greed at not wanting to give up their voting power. They’re literally lying to their delegators and endangering themselves and our chain. Go ahead and contact me on Discord for more info if you want too. I’ll happily provide it and you can share it around on your own time. But don’t sit here on Agora and say I’m not actually actively trying to fix the situation when that’s exactly what I’ve been doing since this mess first came to light.

Nova is the validator I own, yes.
MPowski’s is a delegator that is a fan of Nova and has worked with me on proposals in the past, yes.
NotionalLabs is the beneficiary of this proposal, yes. You can tell that by reading the proposal.

What is false flag about any of this? We’re literally both signers on the proposal. The proposal title names Notional Labs. The facts are plain as day for everyone to see. We’re not trying to hide anything! You wanna know who is trying to hide things though? The compromised validators! How about you investigate them a bit more? I’d be happy to send you a list and the proof I have, or you could literally just check my Twitter where I’ve been tweeting about this since last week.

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That is precisely what I am asking for. I want LUNC to have 2 pathways at the end of Q1 funding for Eds Team.
I want to see the Notional Labs plan since they highlighted many issues with LUNC and the current L1 Team seems to disagree.

We should see these 2 options side by side, do our due diligence and see where we want to go from here. It gives us many options:

  • go with Eds Team
  • go with Notional
  • go somewhere in between by creating a Community lead scope-of-work.

I completely do not understand why some people are hellbeant on sticking hard with a team that could be wrong.

Do we not remember where trust got us so far? TR&150k and 50% Remint (binance will be cool with it trust me bro) just being 2 examples?

People who comment No with Veto on myslef requesting a scope of work from Notional are behaving like I just asked for another 250k for Rebel Station development.

Do yourself a BIG favour - and look up how State and Large corporate contracts are awarded. There is A TON of applicants and the best one gets it. Sticking to 1 scope of work and ignoring the fact it might be wrong is a management level of 60 IQ…

Unless those opposing this are somehow negatively affected by being called a ‘compromised validator’ and their buds. Allnodes have your keys and you have done nothing to address it to date.

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Sir the solution for operator key transfers is exactly the same all across cosmos and there is no other way to do it.

LUNC has numerous other software issues.

Yes, 1.0.5 don’t look quite right.

Hope vals don’t do a mixed upgrade that’s the worst possible case.

Probably the whole task force should be scrapped.

If a prop like this one passes, we could consider putting our validator back up.

I am very sensitive to keeping our business out of releases like v1.0.5 and situations like “allnodes is okay”.

I would suggest that they most important issues, in order of urgency are:

  • Allnodes possession of customer seeds
  • Allnodes & white label %
  • Lack of vigilance among validators about seed phrases
  • Extremely old versions of critical system libraries
  • Acceptance by task force of a plan that includes tossing out all contract state
  • Poor prioritization
  • Lack of fact driven discourse
  • Use of deprecated modules
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If you care to read your own proposal - you list negatives that have happened with current L1.

This is to be the leading intro to NotionalDao somehow being better or solving all the issues.

The biggest issue is that Notional themselves quit and have offered no solutions, only created another drama that you valiantly somehow aim to fix with this proposal?

Read your proposal from a neutral POV and with some sense.

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You are incorrect. Notional created zero problems and offered the only viable solution to reduce risk to Luna Classic.

We did not mishandle seed phrases. All nodes did.

We offered the only viable solution to having so many validators compromised, which is of course that delegators should redelegate. This would solve the problem completely. If the community wishes to have compromised delegators, then they can remain delegated to validators run by all nodes. Of course this has fatal risks to the chain.

We left the layer one task force because We believe that this is a risk on the order of magnitude of May 2022, and that there was simply no opportunity to solve these matters within the constraints of the layer one task force.

In fact the layer one security task force says not their responsibility, which flies in the face of what is necessary to maintain a stable and reliable chain. Luna classic can be restored.

That said, we adamantly refuse to compromise the simple principle of “not your keys, not your coins” to participate in that restoration.

Because of that, we have left the layer one task force.

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I agree with Jacob on this 100% pertaining to compromised validators.

If they won’t agree to migrate then they’ll have to be tombstoned.

We can’t risk a $1,000,000,000 blockchain just so a handful of individuals can save some pocket change.

As to the OP itself, more choices are always better than fewer. I see no reason why the community shouldn’t have access to 2 teams “bidding” for work on LUNC. :man_shrugging: This is how the private sector works, and we as investors retain the right to vote according to our personal preferences. If anything, such a setup would spur L1 developers (regardless of team) to give it their all in order to secure the contract.

Also, everyone keeps forgetting this is a signaling proposal, and as such doesn’t represent the final outcome (hypothetically replace the current L1JTF with Notional Labs). This prop would have to pass, then Notional would have to accept the nomination, then they’d have to present their budgeting plan and roadmap, then the community would need to vote on it according to a funding proposal, etc. etc. etc.

Too many kneejerk reactions going on in this thread! :joy:

Shalom! :pray:

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“creat a problem and then sell the solution”
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

don’t trust, put your money in the bank.

No, whit VETO

*We don’t need teams creating problems
You fucked up your opportunity in L1, go your way

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Notional: We have identified a huge security risk.
Let’s head to Twitter and tell everyone that Zaradar doesn’t agree with it being an issue.

Instead of…Oh I don’t know; Hey folks: It has come to light that this service provider is a risk to the chain due to their key management. Please take heed.

Doesn’t need tweeting wars or pissing on the chain while eventually ragequitting. What did you achieve with this?

Fact that you can’t see any wrongdoing in your approach or handling of the situation is baffling.

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No with veto

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Please be mindful that there were no issues between the team until Zaradar started defending the concentrated VP situation, arguing it is not a problem. What for?? It is clearly non true. It has only escalated from here.

Since Tobias made the statement it allowed the validators in question to go into full denial of the problem instead of trying to address it.

Would it not be possible to ask Allnodes to help the affected validators migrate to a clean setup? By waiving fees or providing assistance as an example?

Would it not be possible to create a small grants program from the CP to help the validators get a proper setup?

Many other solutions could have been used

BUT

Since an L1 dev said there is no problem - ppl like Classy or Crypto King simply called it a day and took no action.

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