When looking at projects to invest in, do you not do your own research? Literally dig up all the shit that you can, to make an educated decision? It’s the very definition of DYOR!
If I wasn’t already invested, I would not touch this chain with a 10-foot barge pole. And I am certain there have been countless investors looking at our chain and saying “No Thank You!”, when they’ve uncovered some of the shit that’s gone on. and, most importantly, CONTINUES TO GO ON!!
Because we are allowing it to.
We need to stamp it out. Eradicate it, like a cancer. Before it destroys us completely.
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After he has smoked the true story came from deep consciousness!
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Hate to put a kink into that FUD of me purchasing all that kewl hardware with prop funds but maybe you want to go check the “Date Published” on this link Ryzen 5950x development rig by echel0n - AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, GeForce GTX 1080 Ti, Fractal Design Meshify 2 ATX Mid Tower - PCPartPicker
Thanks!
wonder where is the mobile apps :-?
I just don’t see the problem, they called a number for a service and we as a community voted yes. This number made it worthwhile for them to go ahead, whats wrong with that? If it was too much someone could have jumped in and undercut them. Someone still can! I didnt see it, guess it’s not so easy
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Hate to put a kink into your hating to put a kink … but I did not mention hardware anywhere in my post.
My post is about TR words, behaviour and attitude. You wrote what you wrote in YOUR OWN words (right image) correct?
We have seen numerous other such Discord screenshots demonstrating very clearly what TR thinks about the community. You’re a bunch of unscrupulous thieving grift merchants. At this point, it’s not even an opinion but a FACT.
You managed to demonstrate it very clearly, all on your own.
FUD & FACT are 2 very different things.
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Mobile apps where never part of the prop, but we produced the mobile android app anyways
https://github.com/terra-rebels/station-mobile/releases/download/v1.0.0/rebel-station-100-69e27f8-release.apk
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Good comeback. I am liking this debate.
Gut_Daddy will not be supporting this
Gut_Daddy will be voting NO on this matter
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I have 2 concerns:
-
Concern 1: TR used LUNC’s funds inappropriately in the past and lied to LUNC’s community, and this is a polite way of stating their past actions. If we were to accept them back, it could send the message that their previous actions were acceptable.
-
Concern 2: The proposal mentions that the developers will be working for 8 hours every day of the month. To clarify, if you divide 240 hours by 30 equals 8 hours a day 7 days a week. Is this a feasible schedule or are they lying again? If not, could you explain why the proposal suggests this schedule? Just do the numbers yourself to see what I mean:
- Echel0n: USD 4,000 ($16.60 per hour, 240 hours per month, 30 days a month)
- BeeJee: USD 3,000 ($12.50 per hour, 240 hours per month, 30 days a month)
- Raider70: USD 3,000 ($12.50 per hour, 240 hours per month, 30 days a month)
Thank you!
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Those are just random numbers they spat out to get some easy cash.
TerraRebels official stance towards the community is “You can not blame us for being Thieves. You must blame yourselves for enabling us to be Thieves.”.
I can not put it any simpler than that.
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@EZMehrtenz We put up a prop with a flat-rate price on it of $150k to do the work, that amount we requested was an amount that we felt comfortable with to get the job done, it was an amount that motivated us to do the work, the materials cost came from our Neblio funds.
Now the community could of came back and requested a smaller amount, or they could of simply voted no to not pass the proposal, however, that was not the case and the proposal was voted yes.
We completed the work outlined in the proposal and even delivered on some line items that we had originally say would require additional proposals, we’ve gone above and beyond and yet the community wants to come back after the fact and try and change the terms and conditions of the contract they made with us, however, we just keep building regardless.
@alego see above please, we never lied about anything, we delivered on everything we said we would and more, yes this proposal outlines 3 people working 8 hours per day 7 days a week, we 3 all work in different time zones, and as you can see we have been able to produce work and resolve issues around the clock consistently already, also, I already work from home and am at my screens 8hrs a day.
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I read 52 pages of that link you sent me. I opened all the links and read all the comments there. I also went to reddit and youtube myself to see other comments not only from this document.
I initially established:
- This “document” is badly written. The reader gets lost in what is written there.
- The chronology isn’t all bad, but it’s not good either
- Biased. The author draws out comments that suit him. Many people had a better opinion, as evidenced by the equivalent of thumbs down under the comments. You can also find them on reddit and even in the links provided in the document.
- The character Eldo is probably responsible for rugp*ull. The author speaks as if it is confirmed information. However, this information has not been confirmed. I’m not defending Eldo here. It’s PROBABLY him.
- I’m sure that “our mods today” didn’t know about rugp*ull until the last minute. On the other hand, the viewers believed in the project as members of the solar community, and therefore they also promoted it. There’s nothing wrong with being deceived. They later regretted it.
- In no comment I’ve seen, nobody called them cheats and they didn’t say give back money or anything like that. If the comments were negative, it was about this promotion.
- Moonshot actually resembles SPU in terms of graphics and mechanics, but the economy is different. If the money stays in place as it is now, you should be fine.
Ponatto tries to contact people on reddit or twitter. Let me clarify certain situations. I’m counting on twitter because reddit is unfortunately not very active. It was quite a long time ago.
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Thank you for your response. However, I want to clarify my standpoint: when I accept payment for a job, I consider it my responsibility to fulfill my obligations as per the agreement. If I fail to meet those obligations, I may face legal consequences, such as financial penalties or even imprisonment. Moreover, if my employer were to offer me a job again after I defrauded them, I would question their judgment and believe that they are inviting more of the same behavior. I hope this helps to better articulate your position.
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@alego TR’s only obligation in the previous 150k spend prop was to deliver a working infrastructure and rebel station app, not only did we do that, we delivered rebel finder and mobile android app, and even stress tested the infrastructure.
Now with this prop, we have itemized a list of work responsibilities that we would be tending to daily, if the community votes in this prop like they did our last prop, I would contribute that to people in that community see the value and benefit of what we are doing and know we deliver on what we promise.
in any event, we just want to build, all this FUD and fighting really needs to stop, its not healthy for anyone or this chain, it hinders progress, specially when it interferes with props needing to get passed for work to get done, there needs to be a solid and reliable foundation in-place before any investor is going to take this chain seriously again, so having redundant infrastructures provides just that, TFL’s primary focus is Luna V2 now, so is it not wise to have another group focus on Luna V1 and let TFL focus on what they are getting paid to focus on?
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Thank you for the additional information. Just to clarify, are you implying that the LUNC community’s disappointment with TR is baseless and that their allegations lack validity? As a community, it’s essential that we take a firm stand against all forms of abuse and collaborate exclusively with reliable and transparent individuals to ensure that LUNC’s blockchain technology is taken seriously.
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The Terra Classic blockchain is currently incompatible with Interchain Station
above statement was fact when we wrote the prop
The existing Station mobile applications potentially may be removed as soon as the end of 2022
above statement was fact when we wrote the prop
Whilst this work eventually may be done, access to the legacy chrome extension and web portal (through Rebel Station) must be provided, as a minimum, in the interim period to allow the community to continue to access their wallets through a maintainable platform.
above statement clearly states that eventually TFL could turn around and change their minds
So I am not sure why certain people from the community insist they were mislead, cause if they actually read the prop, its fairly clear we stated very carefully that its possible that things could change, but that we thought and still think having a backup / redundancy in-place is a good idea.
With that knowledge the people voted in favor of the work being done, we delivered on everything and more, so you tell me then where is the basis of claims coming from for “we got mislead” or “we got scammed”?
Also, NOWHERE in that prop does it state the funds are required for materials to be purchased to complete the work, it doesn’t even state the funds are for labor, it just outlines the work that will get done for the $150k, which did get done, and again, even more on top of that, such as android mobile app and Rebel Finder, which are CLEARLY stated wouldn’t be and required a new prop for the work, but we did it anyways!
So put your self in our shoes, we put a prop up for an amount, the community voted in favor of it, we delivered the work and then went above and beyond and did more, then individuals from the community turn around and call us liars and scammers, demand we work for below minimum wages or free, try and change the terms and conditions of the contract, spread mass FUD through influencers, should it not be TR that is upset?
But what do we do, we just continue to build!
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Can you point to something they did wrong that deserved the level of backlash they received? I agree They did not break their proposal 11030 down appropriately, some members of TR may have applied pressure where it was not as helpful, and at the time there was a community sentiment that TR was not listening - and they paid some people who had been working for months for free (as part of a business model - that allowed them to look to the long term, not just for TR, but for their ability to continue supporting the blockchain).
I know some of the people who were, or still are, part of TR, and I have heard some of their actual in real life consulting fees, and while not everyone, a few of them have people and organizations that have come to respect their abilities and experience and are willing to pay them consulting fees that can be rather jaw dropping to many people. That may have somewhat figured into their flat fee proposal cost. Some of it was that immediacy of the situation around the L2 public infrastructure and wallet, and having some unknowns (such as the API that was needed, promised to be released publicly by TFL, although portions of it would be in psudo-code or redacted, and it was not yet actually released). However, even minus that, even if you took proposal 11030, and added it to this proposal, it is a small drop in the bucket of what TFL was paying monthly for the public L2 infrastructure. Thankfully TFL continued to run the public L2 infrastructure longer than some of the earlier indications seemed to point to, and PublicNodes (AllNodes and TCV) and TR (and really the community which funded them so they would do it on our behalf) that have been able to find ways to come up with reliable infrastructure.
Let me put this in perspective, I was there around proposal 4159, where TFL started graciously working with us, and I was a part of those early discussions of hearing the impossible amount that TFL pays every month for the infrastructure they ran for Terra v1 at the time (and in some cases still do - this forum is run by TFL currently, it is their generosity that keeps the lights on for classic-agora, and a few other things). They were looking to help in shifting that responsibility to Terra v1 if people in this blockchain were going to start reviving this thing. And there was a real concern that the L2 public infrastructure needed a plan quickly (and there was no one stepping forward with a check book with those kind of numbers, and no way the community pool had that kind of money in it). While it turned out differently, and Interchain Station was able to include Terra v1, the quickness of the original proposal was to try to help meet the L2 public infrastructure need. Thankfully it has worked with TFL’s help, and AllNodes and TCV provided services through PublicNodes, but lets be honest, we need as many stable public L2 endpoints as possible for redundancy (including archive nodes, which most validators do not run archive nodes, if any - without those, the blockchain does not go back to block 1).
I am not saying there was not room for constructive criticism, but lets be honest - lately there are factions that seems to think that spending money to keep this chain going is somehow grifting. I am not saying that we should not ask good questions, setting reasonable and protective measures (while being reasonable and realistic), and make sure those receiving grants are not taking advantage, or abusing. But, TR has in fact delivered on their previous proposal, listened (this proposal is broken down), and are engaging in constructive discussion. And if you believe it is grifting, then vote no, put up a proposal, and convince the community that you can perform the same services (or coordinate it), with reliability, for less - happy to read it if you, or any others, can do it (I say that in all honestly).
I am not for abuse either, but lets be honest, the situation was overblown (I think the situation had very little to do with the money, but was really more of a pushback on some of the underlying control that TR exerted as a group, had exerted as it grew [both internally and externally], and its own internal structural problems which it eventually changed, and probably a few personalities, but the community did not know how to respond to it collectively - and that situation opened the door). It is difficult to keep a lot of people on the same page, and working together, and it tried to do its best (even if imperfectly, and with people being personally hurt). Proposal 11030 also did not end up being $150K since a number of people actually returned their pay to the community pool (which they were paid as part of TR’s internal business practice for doing work for months - yes including the moderators, which lets be honest, that Discord server served as a central point that provided momentum, which helped people gain knowledge of TR and became part of that momentum and movement themselves, and provided a working platform, and interaction with the developers - there are things I disagree with Zaradar about, and he later moved for developers to develop away from the distractions of Discord, but originally he said, due to the lack of trust around the crash, TR would work in complete transparency - in those days all developer channels were public [I think that is one of the things I did not think would work, but I believe he got right]). It is true, we all did work at that time knowing we were not doing it for pay (at that time I was a member of TR), but to volunteer. We did it to help those who had lost so much during the crash to possibly recover mid to long term.
Can you blame a business decision to pay people who were burning out by the day due to the weight of working a full time job and then working a volunteer job for hours (maybe not everyone, but some). Even if you listen closely to that leaked TR meeting, you will find that the point of their discussion was how to find a way to take their business outside the chain to make enough to operate, so that they could offer their services to the chain at cost (not at a profit).
My reply is not meant as a defense, but at least as a balance (and hopefully some perspective). Hopefully we can all start working together again, without all the egos of trying to capture control of a bankrupt chain - and instead work together to restore it.
In regards to this proposal, I would encourage others to read why it is important here
I hope you have a great day 
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What you just wrote above is, AGAIN (in absolutely all of its essence) the same as “You can not blame us for being Thieves. You must blame yourselves for enabling us to be Thieves.”.
If I want to buy something, for say $50 and I later find out that that thing is only worth $20. Then as far as I am concerned the person who sold it to me is a liar and a thief. Simple as that. Was I dumb for paying the $50? Absolutely. But that does not change the fact that that person is a liar and a thief.
I have a counter proposal for you.
Monitoring of Operations 3 x 1hr for each 8hr period per dev. As you state that all 3 of you are in different time zones, covering the entirety of the 24hr period.
1hr on - 2,5hrs off - 1hr on - 2.5hrs off - 1hr on = 8hrs
Cost:
Echel0n: 3hrs x 30 x $16.60 = $1,494/month
BeeJee: 3hrs x 30 x $12.50 = $1,125/month
Raider70: 3hrs x 30 x $12.50 = $1,125/month
Total wages/month = $3,744
What do the running costs entail? $2,531 is a very specific amount.
Total/month = $6,275 (x 3months = $18,825)
Any eventual time spent on critically necessary maintenance of “X” is to be clearly documented (why was it necessary) and submitted for reimbursement.
This is more than ample for what you are describing
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Thanks for providing more information. I was thinking of proposing a similar idea to EZMehrtenz’s suggestion earlier. It doesn’t make sense to expect developers to work 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, as it seems like a ploy to demand more money than they’ll actually work for. This makes me wonder if TR is now asking for an excessive amount of money which raises questions about its financial practices. I hope you understand where I’m coming from or how things look from where I’m standing. Thank you!
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